To ltb for lying

[thesilentwoods]

To file for divorce from my husband of four years for lying?

To cut the long version short, he lies to me about loads of things. Big and small. He lies about finances and what he spends his money on (he refuses to have a joint account). He lies about what he is doing online - he spends all his time tapping away on his phone. A year ago, I caught him on a site leaving flirty comments on pictures of women and noticed he had joined 'Closed' groups on Facebook that were pretty questionable. I confronted him, and he was all apologies and 'agreed' with me that it was inappropriate to join these groups as a married man.

Tonight, though, Facebook flags up to me that he has joined one of these closed groups again. I went into the bedroom and asked him calmly if he remembered the agreement we had made about him not joining these groups. He said he did remember it. I then asked if he had joined any more groups. He said no, definitely not. So I told him I knew he was lying.

He then changed tactics and told me that it was OK to join that group because it was not a NEW group but one of the old ones that I 'knew about' (????) I said, no, it doesn't work like that, we made an agreement. Then he began talking about how he only made the agreement in the first place so I wouldn't mention it any more, but did not agree that he should stop joining these groups because he didn't 'plan to do anything'.

Am I unreasonable to think that, whether you 'agree' or not, if you make a promise, you should honour it? Not just lie and then do whatever the heck you want? It seems very petty on one hand but it is the implications. I have shut down emotionally. I can't believe he tried to justify himself by saying It was ok for him to do it because he didn't agree with me. To me, I can't trust a word he says.

We live in a rented house and I have nowhere to go and nobody to turn to. I have a small job but it only pays £600 a month. On one side, it would be the best thing to just shut up and stay married but how can this be a real relationship?

Sorry for rambling but I am very distressed and upset, shaking and feeling sick while I write this and hoping for some perspective and help.

Lying by omission ....awful

Oh, silent ... I think you know what you need to do.

Here is a from me.

You are 40. You have been married to him for four years. He lies about his finances. He flirts online and lies about it. You have a job that doesn't really pay you enough for you to go it alone, and so is keeping you financially dependent on him. You are supposed to be trying for a baby, but it aint quite happening ...

You have to ask yourself whether this is ever going to get any better. If it isn't, then you owe it to yourself to break free. You can rebuild your life at 40; you can meet someone new and start a family.

But I aint gonna lie ... time is of the essence. So either he shapes up NOW, or you ship out.

Can you take more hours in your job? Have you thought about taking a second job? The more money you have in the bank, the more options you have. What do you pay for in the house? Are costs fairly split?

You are not alone in this predicament, silent. It happened to a number of my friends at a similar age. One day, they woke up and realised they were, basically, cheap housekeepers to Peter Pans.

I don't pay anything in the house. Sounds great, I know. But he won't let me share the finances. I don't like that. If I bring it up, we argue. I feel controlled, in a weird way. He earns several times what I do. He also manages to spend it, though, while I behave frugally.

I can't see him shaping up. I don't know what he will do. I know he thinks I will never leave. I would, if 3k dropped from the sky. But it is true that I don't have to do anything now. At the same time, I want to, like ripping off a plaster, because the longer I stay here, in this house, the more likely it is that I will just get weary again of standing up to this and be sucked back in. I don't want that.

I know what I do want, but I am never going to get it. He looks at 20 year old slim, toned young women. I am overweight and 40. Not hideous by any means, but not young, sprightly model material. And not the life and soul of the party, either. I'm quiet. I like to stay at home and read, sew etc. My looks don't bother me, I eat well, I keep clean, and I look younger and feel happy enough with myself, but he makes me feel ugly. Ashamed. And he is my age, obese, a heavy smoker, always going on about his looks going but doing nothing to remedy the situation. I can't see these women falling over themselves to date him, and I can't see him having the confidence to do it face to face either. It all seems to take place online, and he posts pics of himself when he was 28. It would be funny if I wasn't so sad.

I don't think counselling would help, though I don't know. I can't see him suddenly becoming a loving husband. He lied to me early on, about small things. They just became bigger things when he saw I forgave him. I suppose I asked for it.

C'mon op there's another thread by a poster who's posted a few times.

Stay with friends, family etc don't stay so you get lulled into a false sense of security and what you feel now diminishes. Leave him now! See a divorce lawyer ASAP call family for help in a divorce (my boss's charges approx £1400 for a straightfoward one but in London.

Do not proscrastinate (I know because I've done that!) just get out now. You'll get another job or manage! Good luck!

Oh and you need counselling (charities do reduced rates CBT would be good for you) and to find you and to be happy.

I am not surprised you feel controlled.

Look, this is a bit controversial to say, but money is power. It just is. And he has a lot more than you. If he refuses to pool the finances, then he is refusing to pool the power and that is probably why you feel controlled -- because you kinda are being controlled.

Again, you are not equal in the marriage. He makes a lot of money and spends it, and you don't and behave frugally. He has vast amount more options and choices than you have because of this. You also cannot share decisions about finances and the future, so how can you both plan for things together?

To me, it all feels a bit like being in a state of permanent stasis. How can you move forward together as a married couple? You can't even make joint decisions together because he refuses to talk about money. I cannot see a future here.

"I know what I do want, but I am never going to get it."

Why not? You can pretty much do anything if you put your mind to it and get stubborn and orientate your life back to yourself again.

And no partner should make you feel ugly. The whole point of partners is to have someone that makes you feel lovely and attractive and loved, even if you have sick in your hair, a boil on your bottom and you accidentally dyed your hair bright green.

You sound so resigned, silent, and so sad. He sounds like he may have some issues, some demons, but the question is how long you hitch your waggon to his when he is trundling towards a mire?

Alone at 40 is a good place to be if the alternative is to be with someone untrustworthy at 40.

If you don't end it now, his behaviour will continue anyway. In ten years' time "alone at 50". Nothing wrong with that either but doing it now gives you many more years to enjoy life.

Trust is top of the tree in any relationship. You can't love without it.

Bonnie, you are absolutely right.

I did talk to him tonight, and he insists he has done nothing wrong. That I am always being unreasonable. I apparently 'bullied' him into making an agreement with me. Unfortunately, I clearly was not intimidating enough to prevent him from continuing to do what he wanted behind my back.

Super - I know you mean well. But hard as it may be, I do genuinely not have anyone to go to. I have no family, which is partly why I was so invested with this relationship and so sad that I will likely not have kids now. I have no friends left - I have suffered a lot with depression and anxiety over the years and I simply stopped doing anything other than trying to deal with that, and working.

I suppose what is most difficult is his absolute lack of remorse. I would be unable to be so untruthful and deceitful. I would feel unbearable guilt to lie and cheat on someone. I have my faults, of course, but these aren't among them. I wonder if he ever loved me or cared about me at all. It seems not, though, because even when I try to talk to him, he jumps subject and makes odd 'counter accusations' - he just told me that I am also deceitful because I hid his credit card to stop him using them after he maxed them out. This was three years ago. I have honestly tried to understand the way he thinks in the hope that I can make some sense of it and see a way forward, but I just can't.

Get rid.
You are worth more.
Sounds like he's banking on the fact you'll stay so in his mind " why should he bother sticking to the agreement?"
He's controlling.
What do you get out of this marriage?

I'm so sad for you that you feel stuck with this really quite awful man.
He's abusing you, because he's destroying your feelings of value and self-worth. He's making you feel bad about yourself, and unhappy.

THAT is not the role of a decent husband - that's the role of a selfish fucknugget who likes to have a wife to keep house for him while he gets to carry on doing exactly what he likes.

Do you want to be that wife? Who turns a blind eye all the time just to be with a man that awful? No you don't, you've made that clear already.

He won't change, he has no incentive to do so. He sees nothing wrong in the way he lives his life. YOU do, but you don't matter to him, or rather your thoughts and opinions don't matter to him.

So yes, leave him. A tiny flat on your own, however lonely, would be far nicer than living a life of suspicion and misery because someone else is doing that to you by choice.

FGS don't get pregnant! Not with him, anyway.

Please please please start gathering money together to leave as soon as you can, and PLEASE make sure you can't possibly get pregnant by him, it would be dreadful.

"I have honestly tried to understand the way he thinks in the hope that I can make some sense of it and see a way forward, but I just can't."

Here's how he thinks:
I can do what I want and no one can make me do anything else.
thesilentwoods will just put up with it, or I won't tell her so she doesn't nag me.
I don't care how she feels, I just don't want to be nagged about it.
She just needs to stop worrying about what I do and think about her own behaviour - there's nothing wrong with my behaviour, except in her head.
I won't be under the thumb.

Of course you can't "make sense" of it, because you want it to be something other than it is, you really don't want it to be what it is. So this is your starting point - accept the way it is. Then move forward by deciding whether or not you can put up with this shit - and once you've decided you can't, make plans to get out.

What about work colleagues - are you friendly with any of them?

I agree. Thank you, all. You have helped me survive this first day. I am trying to think of it as the first day, and after that it will slowly get better.

I think that is indeed an accurate assessment of how he thinks. It is just so...alien to me that I struggle to believe it. That people who think like this exist. That's naïve, of course.

I may have to live in the guest room for a while. I think I should actually at least not share a room with him, until I can work out how to leave. I've looked at benefits, I think there is a top up housing benefit, and I might be able to talk to the council, though they probably can't help, it is worth a try.

No chance of getting pregnant. I don't want him within at least ten feet of me.

Go to CAB and see if they can advise you as well.
Spare room - well yes, I think that's a good idea for you but it will depend on how he is likely to react to knowing that you are thinking of leaving. Are you going to advertise the fact to him before you have everything in place? Or are you going to wait until you are ready to leave before you tell him?

Of course you could play on this latest upset and say it is just while you get your head around things.

There are two sides to it. One one hand, if I play it down and act as if it has all been forgotten, he sometimes gives me a bit of money which I could save. On the other hand, I might be able to get him to give me a lump sum to leave which would be less than what I could probably ask for in a divorce, seeing as I have no doubt he squirrels money away and I think I have been married to him long enough to get something.

Unless your feelings and his are concrete and you feel able to cope with his behaviour then I'd move out.

only you know if you can survive in a spare room with him knowing etc... I couldn't do this.

at the very least speak to a divorce lawyer or CAB about your rights very soon so you know what you're entitled to and HB etc... line all your ducks up in a row. if you want to PM me I can ask my boss for unbiased advice (free).

also lets be practical here. your job, can you get extra hours? could you start applying for other jobs or look into studying? do you have stuff you could ebay or gumtree that would earn you money?

anyone owe you money or a favour? call those in. where does your family live?

maybe look for a Meetup group locally (don't cost much) so you get out there and meet other people. Get a support network in place, make friends.

Sorry OP but "alone in a tiny flat" is far preferable to being with a man you know you'll never trust. I agree with everyone here who's said LTB, and seek advice from a good lawyer too.

" On one side, it would be the best thing to just shut up "

its never the best thing to just shut up

I also agree with Dragon - never be with someone who tells you to shut up or insinuates that.

I was with an ex and when we finished he said he liked me because I stood up for myself and argued with him but he didn't like women with strong opinions. He didn't tell me this when we were together!

In fact once you 'get your mojo/groove back' - can't think of the feminist type people/phrases you feel so much more empowered, and it's not being overbearing it's about looking out for you. Not him. so yes, LTB and no YANBU.

You're definitely not overreacting. What a sad, sad situation for you - but it can get so much better when you take back control of your own life.

You sound a lovely person with heaps of integrity, which is why you've got caught up in this, because it's hard to believe someone else could be so untrustworthy, selfish and controlling when you are so different. He's not going to change though, and you do deserve to be with someone who will respect and value you.

You are not overreacting, I couldn't live with him.

The main issue you have here is the total lack of trust you have in him, and you have very good reasons for that. He is a lying, untrustworthy man, who treats you as if you are stupid. Don't put up with that, it will slowly suck the soul out of you. I know, I put up with ex for 17 years and I became a shell of my former self. 18m after kicking him out, I feel more alive and happier than I have ever done, it is wonderful and so liberating. I am also more broke than I have ever been in my life, but it is so worth it.

Gather as much financial information about him as you can (salary, pensions, mortgage info, savings accounts, etc.) and make an appointment with a few solicitors. Many will give you a free first half hour advice session, and if you see a few you can get a feel for who will advise you best and who you feel comfortable working with. You are probably in a much stronger position than you realise. And yes, he is in for a hell of a shock - good! He might take you more seriously then!

Time for big girl pants sweetheart. This man is a nasty twat.

In the short term, find someone who's after a lodger, or a room in a house share. My first house share cost me £350 with all bills included and the room had basic furnishings. You can generally move into one of these very quickly.

Then see what benefits you'd be entitled to and apply for them. Then work on either increasing your hours or getting a better paid job. You can work out the divorce once you've sorted yourself out.

It IS possible for you to leave, regardless of your tight budget. You just have to be a bit more flexible in the first 6 months or so about where you'll live.

Op the lies will only get bigger as time goes on. He lies because he can and has no conscience, (people like this are wired differently from the norm) He's probably lied about other things that you are not aware of.

I have a friend with two DC's whose H was like this the lies got bigger and bigger until she realised that she didn't know what was fact and what was fiction, as there was no distinction in her H's head. She had to leave so she could start living a life where she knew what was "real" for her and the children.

Get out as soon as you can manage, there is a future out there for you, good luck

My xh was a liar. Would tell me what he thought I wanted to hear to stop me 'nagging' him. Told me I was obsessed with money, controlling etc etc. In reality I worried about the mortgage and bailiffs. He lied as naturally as he breathed.
Eventually I left him. :)
I was alone and calm :)
I was off the rollercoaster of worry, lies, suspicion and nasty surprises.

I married again to a nice man and we hardly ever discuss money or fidelity because we trust each other. I could be a huge mug but after 15 years it's OK!

My xh has been through numerous relationships. At least 2 more marriages. Not sure how many children. He left wife #2 in the shit financially