To expect my Yr 9 DD to do 2hrs homework a night.

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My year 9 daughter is at present only doing about 45 minutes a night homework (she refuses to do anymore). she is getting away doing so little at the moment. The school expects year 9 girls to do between 8-10 hours homework a week DD is spending less than half of that time on homework.

The school sent a letter out to parents asking 'how much time does your daughter spend on her homework' I sent the letter back saying less than 4 hours per week DD was sent to the year head for a dressing down. DD is no calling me every name under the sun (being very rude). She is saying all her friends spend the same amount of time on their homework and that being dressed down by the year head was unfair. The school expects pupils to achieve A /* or level8/9 grades for GCSE so she was told in no uncertain terms by the year head that 45 minutes a night on homework was unacceptable. This is in contrast to her elder year 10 sister who always does/did over 2 hours a night homework (both are at the same school) even her year 7 brother does 1 hour a night .

Am I correct to ban her from using her computer (except for school work) until she can prove she has spent two hours on her homework that night.

worksallhours

"When I taught in other European countries, there seemed to be a stronger and deeper academic foundation at primary level that mitigated, to an extent, against this four years of panic and anxiety we see in Britain."

Absolutely agree with this!!!

Universities have been using extra-curriculars for years in popular subjects. My sister applied for uni in 2009 and was told by her head of 6th form that she needed to do courses or relevant work experience if she wanted to apply for medicine (even with 4 As at AS level and predicted As at A2). Parents couldn't afford the (expensive) courses and she didn't know anyone working in the field so she couldn't do any relevant work experience (local hospital and doctors wouldn't take any voluntary work / work experience candidates aged under 18 unless they knew a person working there). So she couldn't study medicine at uni. As far as I can see not much seems to have changed since then.

There is funding for courses which are less popular (such as engineering) available now, but that doesn't help the kids who:
a) have caring responsibilities
b) have to have jobs alongside studies because parents can't afford to support them
c) have parents / teachers who don't know about these courses

It is discriminatory, and plenty of people know about it. I / we just don't know how to change it!

Dds Saturday job came from her going and asking for a job, she certainly did not come to me to get her a job. I know a lot of children around my dd's age who work, none come from privileged backgrounds or are doing a job their mum or dad got them.
Can I ask if Unis do not take any notice of extra curricular activities, Saturday jobs etc how do they choose between candidates if everyone has the same amount of GCSEs and A levels all at the same level.

Sorry but I never realised that a Saturday job was the preserve of the rich

Ever lived in a small village in the country?

Loads of Saturday jobs there,aren't there?

You could get a bus....

Dds Saturday job came from her going and asking for a job, she certainly did not come to me to get her a job. I know a lot of children around my dd's age who work, none come from privileged backgrounds or are doing a job their mum or dad got them.

Do you really not understand or acknowledge any barriers to teens from poor families getting Saturday jobs? If your daughter can do it, anyone can?

I know a lot of children around my dd's age who work, none come from privileged backgrounds or are doing a job their mum or dad got them

And there are lots of reasons why someone can't get a Saturday job.

Can you think of some barriers that might prevent that?

This is absolutely horrible.

I'll be honest, it's rare I did ten minutes of homework let alone 2 hours. I got excellent grades at all levels.

Pushing like that can have terrible consequences. When are they actually supposed to be children?!

Dd is year 9. Sometimes she'll do an hourish before she comes home then maybe a bit more later. However at least twice a week she has extra curricular activities which take up much of the evening so she may do far less. Several hours at the weekend though covers the bulk of it.

TedandLola I have several kids in state schools.Trust me when I say my children have not been treated like individuals ( there has been some exceptional teachers).It is all about league tables and the reputation of the school.
I have one in a private school where she has been fantastically well looked after.There has been a huge difference between the level of care,level of expectation and general school professionalism.Its not all about the league tables but the individual development per se.
I'm glad you didn't work so hard at school and are doing well!.You are obviously very bright and didn't need to.Dd has friends like that back at her old school who are very bright but feel no need to work for their Gcse's.It will be interesting to see how far they get in life.

Since when as DofE become only for the rich. It costs £50! Of course if you go through the school it will cost more but going on the website and finding a local centre and registering is a lot cheaper.

We are on benefits, dp had a road accident and is still sick. Dd has a job at McDonald's paying £6.51 an hour which she found, applied for and got herself. She had a temporary Xmas job in next prior to that.

Her school is a sports academy and she's doing double btech sport as well as maths which are both good for getting onto the uni course she wants. We have no idea how uni will be funded but dd is researching grants and loans. She is in no way a privileged girl, has always had to do without luxuries and holidays but her volunteering, first aid skills and time spent with very disabled children have made her into a very compassionate girl and she's got a very good work ethic. Although her room is still a tip.

No one has handed her anything on a plate. Not the job or her experience or her awards. She's worked hard for it all.

butterfly, do you not acknowledge that you've helped your DD in any way? Or that if she had caring responsibilities it might not be practical for her to do volunteering, first aid training or spend time with children with disabilities?

The number of 'US university' undergrad places where extra-currics makes big impact to chance of admission is very small. Ex-currics activities help more with funding to US colleges (scholarships).

and FWIW, Harvard Uni expects every undergrad to work 4-12 hours/week in term time. More in vacation, obviously. The whole financial package insists that undergrads must self-fund to that minimal amount. The US system is just so different, I don't know why UK ppl bring it up. Hard enough to get my head around English university conventions.

I'm not sure what you mean by help? She's done the studying, the homework to get the gcse grades to let her do A levels. She's the one who started volunteering at a youth club when we loved here. She's the one who wanted to join lifeguards and do the first aid. Yes I paid her £2 a week subs but it's her decision to do these things. I can only encourage and praise. I can't make her do anything.

In terms of caring, she's had to grow up fast, I've been disabled for 9 years, I only moved in with dp three years ago so she has always had to help at home with her younger sister, sometimes having o cook dinner and do washing. I had major surgery three years ago and then dp had his accident so for months it was a struggle and she stepped up and helped. I try to not ask too much of her but when it's needed she will do stuff at home.

I have always talked to her about her future,rather than the here and now, balancing work, school and fun and making sure she's got good enough grades so that no matter what she does, she's got the option to do whatever she wants.

She has never had much, maybe that's her motivation. Kids in her year are turning 17 and being bought brand new cars for their birthdays, we can't afford that and wouldn't do it anyway but she wants more and that motivates her.

Orlando I have lived in a small village in the country. Bus only 2x per day into the local town at very inconvenient times. I at the time could not drive so I bought a bike for £10 from someone in the village and biked to work each day. The children who had Saturday jobs would get on their bikes and bike the 5 miles each way as well at the weekend.

My Ds is still at primary so I can't comment on what is normal...

I would try speaking to her about what is reasonable to do her homework.

I also remember my mum saying she was always their for us to do our hw..However we came in from school and was sent straight to our rooms to do hw...I had just finished school and wasn't ready to start again and consequently made very little effort.

I think talking to her about what would help and pointing out that if you had wrote 12 hours they would be very concerned about the standard of work for 12 hours work.

The children who had Saturday jobs would get on their bikes and bike the 5 miles each way as well at the weekend

Are you related to Michael Howard?

Yeah, sure. Anyone can do anything if they want to enough, there's no such thing as privilege.

My dds school is five miles away, she cycled for two years and then I paid bus fare in exam year.

What's with the sarcasm Hak? My dd is not privileged but she's motivated. Why is that so hard to understand? We have so little money right now that we are scraping petrol money together to get dsd on Friday. Thank God the cupboards are stocked because we get nothing for another 10 days.

There are two competing issues here. One is about systemic disadvantage. Surely nobody would deny that there are a significant minority of children who could never hope to make it to medical school, or Oxbridge, or Westminster, and not because of a lack of ability but because of a lack of opportunity. We could dispute their numbers but nobody, I'm sure, can deny that they exist.

Then there is the issue of the actual teenager in front of us. Sitting in the OP's living room, swearing and insisting that she doesn't need to do more than a couple of hours homework each week, despite her teacher saying otherwise.

I think the "system" certainly needs an overhaul, but it's not going to come about any time soon. In the meantime, we owe it to the children we're raising to prepare them for the world as it actually is. Which means teaching them how to work hard and endlessly making excuses for laziness.

Many children in the UK are born into serious disadvantage. But many others are born into warm, safe homes. They have free education to 18. They have free healthcare. They have peace and quiet to do their homework. They are among the luckiest children ever to have lived. Are they going to appreciate those opportunities, and grab them, or are they going to sit around watching Friends reruns while their parents complain that someone in the next street is even luckier than they are, so what's the point of trying?

The wealth of the UK is not guaranteed forever. Standards of living are falling here. Our children will not have the comfortable lives we do. We can work to change that on a societal level, but on an individual level we have to make sure our children have the most valuable resource they can get - the best education possible. The world in ten or twenty years time is not going to be kind to un- (or under-) educated adults.

and not endlessly making excuses :blush:

Can't even get embarrassment right!

Butterfly, can you you really not see the advantage your attitude and support gives your daughter? She is incredibly lucky to have you and that is fantastic, but saying that because your ds can achieve anyone can is disingenous in ththe extreme. Privilege does not just mean financial advantage, you know.

saying that because your ds can achieve anyone can

Butterfly has never said anything like this! She has just said that despite many disadvantages, her DD has made the most of the opportunities that came her way. She is focussing on the choices she could make, not the choices she didn't have.

This is the best attitude to instil in our children. The vast, vast majority of children in the UK do have opportunities to improve their lives, and they need to be encouraged to take them.

Defeatist "it's well for some who can afford bicycles" attitudes don't actually help anybody.

I wouldn't be focusing on time spent.

Time is not in a direct correlation with effort and while effort should strongly correlation to marks - obviously other things effect that as well - perhaps deeper understanding of subject or certain areas or even teaching.

Lack of effort would be bothering me - and while my DC are still at primary I'd probably do what some of their GP did and sit down and talk to them about how it's easier with good exams results and how effort now pays off and see if there are reasons I could help with why effort isn't being made. Does she need help managing her workload better - estimating times needed?

By this age both DH and I were managing our work load and time - parent asked questions but didn't dictate when or how long we took to do things.

Having said that I don't get the out rage at the two hours a night - mon to thur I regularly did 6 to 8 /8.30 and time in lunch or weekends wasn't unheard of in fact happen more often than not.

I chose to do that - though later diagnosed with dyslexia so probably was working harder than many other students - but a rural location meant limited social and outside hobby distractions for the most part.

I'm not sure I want the same of my DC - I think I'd want more outside pursuits and interest though DH thinks he was doing about 2 hours most nights at this age - he got in before 4 did his food then sat down till his parents made it home around 6.30 - 7 then often went out later round his mates or to his group activity.

We were both at fully comprehensive standard state secondary's in very different parts of the country - though we did better than most who went there.

DH family did incentives - bring home so many A and you get x- I really don't think they needed to but they did - mine praise effort throughout my time living with them and got me to focus on what I wanted in future and what I needed to get to get there. Basically they were getting us to motivate ourselves - have you tried stuff like this rather than insisting on a set amount of time?

Or could you try insisting that HW is done before she gets to do other stuff at weekend - switch the internet off all weekend, lock the doors - I'm half joking there but mine at younger rage have to do things before TV, or minecraft are put on - or raise it fri, sat and see if you can get her to sit down for few hours then she has Sunday to polish it or if not at least to estimate better the time needed to do task ?

Or if you've tried that - would her doing badly this year act as a wake up call for next year or term?

"Defeatist "it's well for some who can afford bicycles" attitudes don't actually help anybody."

Of course it doesn't. But neither does saying that anyone can achieve a bicycle if you want it enough. Or that family support doesn't make a difference.