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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To be fed up every time "he's tired" is trotted out as an excuse?

51 replies

Happyyellowcar · 28/04/2015 18:51

Had play date with DS1's (both are 5) "friend". Friends mum said at the beginning that he's "very tired..." Which is code for: his behaviour will be appalling yet again. This friend hits, bites, pokes, pinches etc all through the time we were there, both in front of us and when they were playing by themselves. This boy has been "tired" at EVERY play date we have had for THREE years! His behaviour has not improved and I am so fed up with this excuse! I'm really good friends with the mum which makes things very tricky. AIBU to just accept this excuse every time? Should I say something?

OP posts:

Original poster

Happyyellowcar · 29/04/2015 11:41

goodnessgracious you're right, it has gone on too long. I told DS1 we wouldn't be having play dates with him for a while and he was happy with that. If I spoke to my friend I think it would really damage the friendship unfortunately. I was especially annoyed because the biting happened because DS1 and the friend were both trying to play with the friend's new Lego set. Obviously his friend was not in a sharing mood but he was not really punished as he was basically sent to his room and then allowed to play with this Lego by himself which was what he wanted all along. It's setting a bad example to DS1 when there is no clear punishment for what I believe is a serious incident. I would have confiscated the Lego if it had been DS1. I'm sure she is aware there is a problem but she has always taken the "earnest talking to" approach rather than anything more which obviously hasn't addressed the issues. Also she never really talks about his bad behaviour even though I am quite open about my concerns for DS1 whenever he gets into silly mode. She always talks him up - he is academically very bright! I will bite my tongue for now and just see her without DS1 unless she raises the subject as I don't want to lose her as a friend.

OP posts:

pocketsaviour · 29/04/2015 18:14

If I spoke to my friend I think it would really damage the friendship unfortunately.

Do you really want to be friends with someone who doesn't seem bothered that your son is being hit and bitten?

Lucy61 · 29/04/2015 18:22

Just say the children don't se to get on, why don't we meet for a drink/coffee without the kids sometime and treat ourselves!

Lucy61 · 29/04/2015 18:23

Se *seem

Momagain1 · 29/04/2015 18:30

Next time they arrive and he is tired, so, 'never mind then, take him home for a nap'.

Or stop making playdates with him in the first place.

FenellaFellorick · 30/04/2015 15:33

well, perhaps the friendship will just have to be damaged in order to stop your son from getting thumped. Maybe you have to choose. How much whacking of your child is too much? At what point do you say actually, I have to ensure my child isn't hit any more because he's young and that's my job and if the price I have to pay for that is a pissed off friend, I shall have to be ok with that.

Hopefully it won't come to that and she won't question the lack of playdates and your request to see her without the child.

BertieBotts · 30/04/2015 15:41

It's the kind of thing you say about a 2 year old, except then it's pretty much true. Now it sounds like he's just in the habit of behaving how he likes and having it explained away for him - I expect that she's just never quite made that transition from parenting a young toddler to parenting a school aged child, it's something I struggled with, but in fact it was the fact that I had one friend and my DH (then DP) both say something quite strong to me about DS' behaviour that I realised what had happened.

But yes you do risk losing the friendship if you point this out. But then your friendship is sustaining damage right now because her son is hurting yours.

If you wanted to try a softly softly approach you could talk about how you found it hard to become more authoritative as your son got older and then finish with a "Oh well, we're all in this together, you know what I mean, don't you!" type comment (message: of course, you're also being more authoritative with your son now he's older. Right?!) But you do risk it going over her head especially if she thinks she's following a "gentle parenting" style or similar.

CornChips · 30/04/2015 15:47

Not really on th topic at all, but why do you reward DS2 when DS1 has been misbehaving? Does it not make DS1 just resent his brother?

Anyway, you do not need to put up with a playdate that is fraught like that.

BertieBotts · 30/04/2015 15:58

Ooh I hadn't noticed that. I agree. It's probably harmless enough now but my cousins' parents did this and it just lead to the younger one winding up the older one until she lashed out and then smirking and basking about it, because she would get the older one's pocket money! Really damaged the relationship between them, they have made up now, but they're adults.

WhiteConverseSkinnyJeans · 30/04/2015 17:40

its prob already been said but don't see the mum with her little shit ds

my life is so much happier since deciding to only see certain friends when they haven't got their hideous dc

got sick of my dc being smacked, bullied, shouted at and my house trashed while I had to sit their and silently seethe

lifes too short op

MyIronLung · 30/04/2015 18:11

If it was me then I'd probably say something like " insert your ds name was quite upset last time we met because of the biting/hitting/being hurt, is it ok with you if we cool the playdates for a bit?".

If she gets upset with that then it's not your problem. I'm sure she wouldn't keep putting her son in a position where he would end up being hurt!

BigBirthdayGloom · 30/04/2015 18:23

My ds is rubbish at play dates after school and has always been a bit tricky. He did bite sometimes when he was two. But then I became super vigilant and preventative and so it really didn't happen any more (even though sometimes I had to do fairly spectacular saves!). And now he's older, he has "improved" in so much as he cries more than I'd like but certainly doesn't need watching like a hawk. And in between, I had to limit play dates because they were exhausting for both of us and not in any way a good catch up with a friend. So, I had a son with tricky behaviour and I had to do a lot to make things work. I might well have said he was tired, because it was very often true. But I would still take responsibilty for either cutting things short or pro actively smoothing the play. Your friend probably needs support; my dearest friends are the ones who weren't judgemental at that time, but neither can she expect total tolerance of violence. And to be honest, both of you might need to get a bit more hands on with play if meeting together is important to you.

BathshebaDarkstone · 30/04/2015 19:31

summer, also my DD's tired every day because DS keeps her awake at night. She only misbehaves when she's tired, when she somehow manages to get enough sleep she's like a different child.

Original poster

Happyyellowcar · 30/04/2015 21:41

cornchips I worry about that too so I only take a sticker from DS1 and put it on DS2's chart if DS1 either does unprovoked violence towards DS2 in front of me or if I hear him egging on DS2 to do naughty stuff because he then usually comes running to me to tell on DS2 to try to get him into trouble! Non of that is DS2's "fault" and actually they have been playing together really well recently.

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CornChips · 30/04/2015 21:54

Oh, I see. I was trying to work it out. :) Thanks for explaining.

I think it is fair enough to maybe say to your friend that you think the pair of them might need some distance for a bit as they are going through a winding each other up phase.... would that work? I am trying to think of a diplomatic way to approach it.

Original poster

Happyyellowcar · 30/04/2015 22:10

I could try (sighs) - I'm not a very diplomatic sort and usually get in a muddle when trying to word things nicely. I'm northern and blunt tbh which is why I think it would do our friendship no good if I said something...we obviously have completely different parenting styles as I am most definitely not the "earnest talking to" type myself. She has been patiently explaining why it isn't nice to hit /bite etc since he was two and still doing the same thing now he is 5 but replacing the naughty step with his room (and toys!). I hate the patient explaining! Does it ever actually work?

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KERALA1 · 30/04/2015 22:19

I had this - was new to area met a nice mum but her dd consistently vile to mine. Stopped seeing them. Dd baffled as to why I kept inviting a child over who was horrid to her.

Rubbish message you give your child being I want to see my friend so you have to suck up the abuse from their awful kid. In my case the mum was great and really dealt with the behaviour which worked in the long term but short term didn't want to inflict that on my child

CornChips · 30/04/2015 22:20

Patient explaining.... I don;t know if it works. DS is just diagnosed with ASD (he's 4) and the patient explaining is a bit hit and miss. We do time out though and that does help.

One of my aunts came to stay last year, and she was horrified when I told DS a firm 'No' over something. She said to me ; 'Children should never be told 'no'. They should have things explained to them'. FWIW, her grandson also the same age as DS is a destructive little thing and is never told 'no'. Mind you, she also gave me a lecture about tv rotting the brain and how terrible it is for DS to watch CBeebies, while giving her grandson the ipad to watch postman pat.An ipad is different apparently as it is interactive. So I don't listen to her much.

sneepy · 30/04/2015 22:20

I had this with a very good friend. I pointed out that our girls didn't seem to be enjoying play dates and she agreed, so we started meeting up at playgrounds or soft play or without the children altogether. It worked brilliantly and I never had to say anything bad about her DD. this was 4 years ago, give or take, and we are still friends. Her DD and mine get along fine now but would never seek each other out to play despite going to the same school and having known each other all their lives.

BertieBotts · 30/04/2015 22:42

Patient explaining does sometimes work but sometimes you (as the parent) just have to accept that right now little Johnny does not give a shit if it hurts little Paula to stamp on her foot, because she was mean first and he WANTS to hurt her.

That's when you need to step in and override their instincts for them, because it doesn't matter that they understand the theory, FGS, even adults lose control, it doesn't take a genius to understand that small children will. I now say to DS that if he is losing control then it's our job to take control, he might not always like it, but if we're doing it, then it's because we have to in order to keep him safe and he must trust us.

He does not always like it, of course. But it's the parent's job to help children to learn that control of themselves. It's really grossly unfair to give them the theory but no actual support to put it into practice.

measles64 · 30/04/2015 22:48

My 13 year old finally decided he had had enough of a friends son, they have known each other since they were 4. Now he avoids him socially. The other boy is confused by my sons distancing him. Some friendships are not to be. Us Mums are still friends though, which is good.

SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius · 30/04/2015 22:49

When ds3 was about that age, my friend's little girl, who was the same age, used to pull his hair constantly. The difference was that her mum used to stop her, and tell her off. She would also put her dd in the high chair with a couple of toys, so that my ds3 could play in peace.

Mind you, ds3 would then go and stand by the highchair so she could reach his hair...

measles64 · 30/04/2015 22:49

Edit to add this boy has always been a spoilt pain in the butt and my son easy going.

Chiefbumwiper · 01/05/2015 07:39

I have a similar situation, friends child is very spoilt and always expects her own way, and we have to pander to her because "she's tired" and thus will have a tantrum if we don't. Yawn!

TwoOddSocks · 01/05/2015 10:06

It's setting a bad example to DS1 when there is no clear punishment for what I believe is a serious incident. I would have confiscated the Lego if it had been DS1.

I think YABU here. You have every right to not go on playdates if your DS is getting hurt/not having a nice time but you can't expect your friends to discipline their children to set a good example to your DS. Your DS will have to get used to the reality that different families have different rules.

Also she never really talks about his bad behaviour even though I am quite open about my concerns for DS1 whenever he gets into silly mode.

So? She doesn't have to discuss her DS's behaviour with you, he sounds like he might be more hard work than yours but that doesn't mean she has to discuss all of his difficulties with her friends. It almost sounds like you want her to put down her DS in front of you just to prove yours is better behaved.

I would stop the playdates since they sound stressful for everyone but don't but in to her parenting techniques, it's none of your business and you don't necessarily know all the complexities of her situation. If she asks why by all means be honest and say your DS wasn't enjoying them but you'd love to meet her during school time.

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