To ask if you know about the executions taking place today?

[kewtogetin]

I have been following the case of the 'Bali 9' for years but it seems today is the end of the road for Andrew chan and myuran sukumaran. They are due to be executed at 5pm UK time.
I have just watched their families leaving the jail for the last time after saying their final goodbyes. It was heartbreaking. This is not really a post about the rights and wrongs of the death penalty (although I am massively against) but I can't help feeling this is more of a punishment for the families than for those who committed the crime.
I believe death isn't the punishment but fear. Saying goodbye to your children/parents etc, being marched through the rain forest, tied to a wooden stake with a hood over your head and then shot through the heart. It's just barbaric.....
What do you think? And no 'if you can't do the time don't do the crime' spouters please. Two men (actually 2 of 11 I believe) will die today but glorying in it is disrespectful at best.

I think it's disgusting that they have been going on about the Australians and ignoring the Filipino.

There is no justification for the death penalty under any circumstances.

Even if you ignore the shitty legal processes and the inhumanity of it it simply comes down to a nonsensical view ...you have done something really bad that has hurt other people (usually it's a violent crime) and that is so abhorrent, so terrible that we will ....kill you.

It is a ludicrous argument. It is not a deterrent, it does not save money. It serves no other purpose than proving that humans are vengeful and violent and destroy each other.

I don't think the view should be 'they know what you were getting into, knew the consequences, knew the law etc'. I think the view should be why do we accept any society that murder their citizens because they have done something that that society has decided is unacceptable?.

I hope that's true about Mary Jane Veloso.

Incidentally, Leah Betts was probably killed by drugs made in a UK lab. Not smuggled in.

Fillipino woman has been spared (sorry I don't know her name)

Sorry someone already said that. And knew her name. My bad.

It's sad. I feel for their families, but I just don't get this orgy of grief. They were people who were prepared to do things there were aware would reduce other people into the squalid, sordid abject misery of the life of an addict, at worst kill them. Executing them may not be justified but they are not martyrs, Saints or romantic heroes.

Aerminger didn't know that and was just using names of 2 publicly known addicts. Wouldn't have outed myself by naming my ex bil. Perhaps unfair but hey ...

Who has said they are martyrs, saints or heroes?

Nobody.

They were criminals. Now they are dead bodies in a forest, shortly to be loaded in to the prepared coffins provided by the state who just killed them.

They don't have to be martyrs, saints or heroes for me to be sickened and horrified by what has just been done to them in the name of justice.

"If you know the law of the land then you will be ok as long as you follow them."

Really? Here is no corruption, prejudice and sometimes just plain error? Innocent people have been put to death - if it can happen to them - it can happen to you or your loved ones.

Other countries have decided to execute folk who dissent, who are gay, who happen to renounce their religion, who blaspheme, who commit adultery - but they knew the law of the land ... So tough luck.

Other countries have decided to execute folk who dissent, who are gay, who happen to renounce their religion, who blaspheme, who commit adultery - but they knew the law of the land ... So tough luck

That's what I have an issue with. I have no issue with the execution of people who smuggle drugs. I have a massive issue with countries who execute people for reasons as stated above.

Yet our Government is remarkably quiet when it comes to the attitudes of countries like Saudi Arabia, isn't it?

I feel as sickened and horrified for the families of the addicts of the drugs such as they were smuggling.

Personally I think the death penalty is a big deterrent and if seeing their heartbroken families means that another person doesn't follow in those foot steps them it's served the purpose.

I do feel.Sorry for the families

QOD "I can't quite comprehend how those sentenced to death feel. Disbelief? Hope? Fear of the unknown? I can't get my head round it. I kind of vaguely agree with the death penalty in a "it'll never be reintroduced in the UK anyway" kind of way for those crimes that are irrefutable by means of DNA. Like Roy Whiting. But I don't think I do agree with it for other more indirect crimes .... but it's the law in the country they committed the crime in .."

It's difficult - I switch the way I feel sometimes myself. For those who commit awful crimes - I really don't care what happens to them, I think many of them deserve a terrible death. But the reality of what it entails is quite horrible. And one of my biggest issues is with miscarriage of justice - innocent people being executed. Or the fact that "justice" often depends on race, class, education, wealth etc. It is not a fool proof system which deals out justice indiscriminately.

I think it's just safer not to have the DP.

I don't feel that whether they deserve it or not is the issue. We, at least governments, in the 21st century, are supposed to be civilised, the DP is not a civilised way of carrying on.

The Indonesian government has confirmed that the 8 men were executed, and that Mary Jane was temporarily reprieved.

They have, however, said that the reprieve is temporary so that she can testify in the trial of Sergio, and is simply a postponement.

Putting the legal aspects of this aside, I think that would be horrendous. To be so scared but accept it and be ready, and then reprieved, and then prepared again - that would almost be worse, for me. I don't think I could handle that. I hope that if Mary Jane testifies and helps Indonesia in some way, and as her recruiter has come forward, they will at least lessen her sentence.

In response to PP - the death penalty is NOT a deterrent. Anyone suggesting so is woefully ill - informed and has not read any of the extensive research.

The US uses the death penalty in many states and has some of the highest rates of violent crime in the world. It also incarcerates more of its citizens than any other country.

The death penalty and harsh sentences do not make any difference to crime rates. In fact if you look at the US - it makes it worse.

The reasons are multi-factorial but it's possible that a factor is the society as a whole. Why would you respect a government or society that places so little value on human life?. Why would you be non-violent in a society that practises the most extreme violence as a justifiable and approved response to anothers behaviour?

Why would you abide by the laws set by a society that proves time and time again that they will kill you or take away your entire life and not take into account that you were young or stupid or abused or ill or poor. Why would you respect a society like that?. I'm not saying this is my view but I think it's a valid one.

The US can't execute minors so they use life without possibility of parole for CHILDREN. The youngest in recent years was 13. His case is being appealed but the judgement was still given and didn't result in a national or international uproar. And it should have.

Google Andre Thomas - convicted murderer who's crime was so extreme he was clearly psychotic (i'm also also MH professional). He removed one of his eyes with his bare hands while awaiting trial.

He was still found guilty and sentenced to death. He removed his remaining eye and ATE it in response to delusional ideas while on death row. Only then was this now blind and obviously mentally ill removed to a Psychiatric hospital.

Appeals are being processed but he retains death row status and by implication, waiting for an execution date.

There is nothing that anyone can do that will ever justify the death penalty. Any society that utilises it, condones or doesn't challenge it is inhumane, vengeful and frankly fucking stupid.

To those saying we're ghoulish for watching this. We've (well, I) have been following this case for years. 10, in fact. We've watched as these men have been rehabilitated and understand how senseless this all is. I see it was a bit silly now, but I actually held out some hope of a last minute reprieve.

I am gutted this morning. I feel sick and heavy of heart that so supposedly civilised nation could allow this to happen.

I was not watching the news for entertainment value.

however - not silly, I did too. :(
I am relieved that Mary Jane Veloso has had a reprieve, albeit temporary - and I hope that, along with the trial of Maria Sergio, it allows her legal representatives time to get her sentence transmuted.

I don't see what has been achieved by these executions, tbh. Worldwide condemnation (or at least from the countries who had nationals who were executed), loss of income from tourism for Indonesia, for whom it is a big part of their national income, and I would assume some loss of diplomatic relations with countries that are important to them. Certainly it won't stop the drug trade - were there are large amounts of money to be made, people will always take the risks - some people just are that stupid and greedy.

Sorry, if you can't do the time don't do the crime, get over it, they are convicted drug traffickers who knew what they were risking. There are plenty of more worthy causes to get upset about, personally I think the world is well rid of them.

Who has said they are martyrs, saints or heroes?

Nick Xenaphon is on ABC News right now talking about them as if they are. One of the papers published a story (on Anzac Day!!) that there should be a minutes silence when they are killed. News stories this morning about 'brave condemned men' and glowing reports of what they have done in prison since their arrest. Julie Bishop this morning: “They were examples of hope and transformation,”

It's all a bit too much.

Yes Midnite - there is some danger that people are forgetting why they were there in the first place, and that they will be glorified as martyrs and heroes, which is very disturbing to see.

Andrew Chan and Myuran Sukumuran were co ringleaders of the drug smuggling gang. They were not caught on their first trip, there had been at least two previous 'successful' drug runs. Other members of the Bali 9 testified that their families had been threatened by AC and MS. Martyrs and heroes? No, just a couple of criminals who got caught in a country with strict laws about drugs and a known death penalty.

I think their story is a strong one of redemption. They have spent the last ten years supporting other prisoners, including transforming the meth lab openly running inside the prison into an art studio. One has become a pastor, the other has emerged as a talented artist. The governor of the prison has pleaded for their lives as they have made such a significant difference to the wellbeing of other prisoners. They are not the same troubled and stupid teenagers who committed the huge crime.
Their trial was completely corrupt with the judge asking for bribes.
Indonesia's president wanted to show his domestic audience that he does not take orders from Western countries. These guys were sacrificed for his local ratings.

Call my cynical, but if I were in prison and trying to appeal the death sentence, I'd probably become a model prisoner as well.

You would fake it for ten years, including getting qualifications and looking after others in the system? Trying to comfort the other death row people on your last day?
Here is one of Sukumaran's last paintings, showing blood dripping down the Indonesian flag.

Re the post which mentioned Leah Betts......she died of water intoxication not drugs.

She drank too much water because she feared the drugs would dehydrate her or cause her to overheat!