AIBU to feel angry with my friend?

[Joolsy]

Our DDs are both 11 and are starting to want to go out on their own. They see each other about once a month. Yesterday DD's friend & mum came over & the girls wanted to walk to our local park, 10 mins walk away. My DD has done this a couple of times recently to meet friends there. My friend however started saying, in front of both girls, "what if someone GRABS you and BUNDLES you into a car!" I said to her, if you're going to worry about things that will probably never happen, you'd never do anything. She then said "don't you worry that she may go out & you'll never see her again?" I replied, well no, I don't think like that! She was then questioning which of us was the bad parent! The girls did go, and apparently DDs friend was suspicious of practically everyone they saw. I'm really angry that my friend said all this infront of the girls. No wonder her DD is so untrusting of everyone. My DD is very sensible and knows that murderers/kidnappers etc are not lurking on every corner, but only because I've explained the risks involved. I feel like giving my friend a piece of my mind.

actually when we lived in London I would let them go to the shops at seven or eight, because it is safer there. Lol.

11 is secondary school age, it's perfectly acceptable to walk 10 minutes to the park at that age! she's too over protective. She needs to teach her daughter how to be responsible, not fearful.

London would not have concerned me too much with my DD1 at that age (she is now 19), though it wouldn't have been (and wasn't) my first choice about a place to start letting go. She has always seemed to be naturally fairly streetwise, and with her head screwed on. She just is.

My now 16 year old DD2, not a chance even now. She is much less confident in herself than the DD1 ever was. She has been treated the same but has always been much less mature at each age, and always a very late developer. Nothing wrong with her, it is just the way she is. She seems determined to remain as un-streetwise as possible for as long as possible!!

I recently had to see her and 12 year old DD3 to Euston Station as they were going to visit DD1 (who is at uni). That involves a stretch on the Victoria Line from here, so I went with them, explaining to them how to use the London Underground and how to follow the journey along so that you get off at the right stop. DD3 got it instantly. DD2 just gave me blank looks and I ended up realising that it would be DD3 guiding DD2 if I wasn't there, not the other way around.

By the time I had seen them both onto the train at Euston it was clear that DD3 would be the one ensuring they got off in the right place. I was very relieved when DD1 texted me later saying that she had collected them safely.

So London and places like it depend very much on the maturity/character of the child concerned, especially if they didn't grow up with it.

All the 10 and 11 year olds are being prepared for Secondary around this part of London.
Apart from the odd parent who is planning on driving them to school. Most of the journeys are going to involve buses, and I will accompany my 11 year old for the first few mornings.
But once he gets the hang of where to change etc. he will be on his own.
All of year six are walking to school on their own.

Because we have a higher population and how do I know whether someone might harm my DC? At 13 I may be OK with it. That was the age at which I was allowed round the corner by myself.

Bathsheba will you drive or walk your DC to school every day? I can't imagine mine being very happy with that at 13.

nancy I live in London and I eat children 3 meals a day!

I'll catch the bus with them (no car), tough shit if they're not happy with it.

bath Oh okay :)

I think it is different parenting styles. I don't think either of you are a bad parent. I think at 11 most children are starting to get a. It of autonomy... But I do agree that it depends slightly on child, area etc.

Don't agree with the scaremongering though...

My niece once ran out of a soft play into the main arcade area, much much younger (5) but SIL was crazy on return, really grilling her about who she saw, did anybody touch you? Did anybody try to talk to you? Did you go anywhere with anyone? Way waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy OTT and I think will mean the child will be terrified to tell her if anything ever did happen!

We live in London. DD1 is Y7 and because of the great public transport she has more independence (during daylight hours) than her similar age cousin who lives in the north. DD gets the bus to and from school on her own (there will invariably be others from her school on the bus). She has also met up with friends at Westfield occasionally and also at our local cinema (10 min bus ride). Most of DD's friends are similar although there are a couple who are more cautious.

Her cousin gets lifts to and from school and does not meet up with friends except at her house or their houses (and only then if the friend's house is a short walk away or she is able to get a lift). This is mainly because it is not really possible for DN to get anywhere independently (although DB and SIL are worriers so may well be glad of the excuse!). If she goes to the cinema with friends, SIL stays as it is not worth her driving back home and coming back for DN 2 hours later.

I think fair enough that different people have different parenting styles, etc but the OP's friend's perception/ assessment of risk, which she also conveyed to the 2 girls, isn't a matter of taste or choice it's just plain factually wrong, in the sense that it grossly over exaggerates the dangers of that particular situation.

I'm now 50; when I was a nipper the age at which children commonly walked themselves home was 7 (you would get really teased at school if your mum picked you up after this). In my case, and not unusually, I had a key round my neck and I would then wait at home for my mum till she got back from work.

I recognise that people feel differently now and my 9yo is not yet going out independently (though will very soon). But I don't think the world outside has changed all that much - there were fast cars, predators and bullies in the 70s, just as there are now. But the school will not let them go home on their own yet (still not convinced it's their place to make this decision) and I do worry that adults on the street are less likely to positively intervene.

I think the key thing for OP's friend to recognise - and some posters on this thread - is that there isn't a magic age where they become invulnerable or able to cope; nor is there an age when suddenly parents feel ok about letting their kids out on their own. In many ways, a 13 year old is more vulnerable than a 9 year old (more likely to get unwanted sexual attention, more likely to attract bullies and muggers) and I'm not convinced I will ever stop worrying about them when I'm not with them. I see it more as a sensible judgement on when to start accepting certain risks, and careful training of both parent and child - it's us that needs help with this, as much as them.

Actually I do think that it is bad parenting to be too overprotective. It is better to let them gradually have more and more independence, that way each little step is exciting and eventually becomes the norm.

The alternative is to protect them as long as you are able to get away with it and then before you know it they are 14/15 and haven't got a clue. This seems the more dangerous way to be honest.

It depends where you live. An 11 year old needs to start having some freedom but it needs to be appropriate.

Unless things are really different in the UK than they are in the US, the chances of your DD being kidnapped by a stranger are really low. Most kidnappings here are a result of custody disputes, and are by someone the child knows. Kidnappings get a lot of media coverage, so it seems like there are more of them than there are.

Encouraging your child to have unrealistic fears can't possibly be better parenting than not doing so. How could it be?

What would your friend's proposed solution be? Would it be to drive the girls to the park? Or for them to not go to the park at all, unless a parent was with them? Either of those is probably more dangerous than their walking to the park. They get exercise walking to the park, and the risks of not exercising are well known. They're more likely to go to the park less if an adult has to go with them. Riding in a car is generally more dangerous than walking.

But don't get unrealistic ideas about what giving her a piece of your mind is going to accomplish. Irrational fears (and that's what this is) aren't easily swayed by logic. It's kind of like how so many more people are scared of flying than of driving, when there is plenty of data showing that flying is safer. It feels safer to not let your kids out of your sight, just like driving feels safer than flying.

OP YANBU and your friend sounds loopy

TopseyT does your DD2 have special needs? That sounds worrying, even allowing for personality variation... Is she planning to go to uni in two year's time?

YANBU. It makes no difference whether your friend thinks 11 is too young or not. She was wrong to frighten your dd and undermine her new found confidence and independence. YANBU to be angry and I'd have a quiet word with her about not saying those things in front of dd again and passing on her anxieties.

AyMamita, none that we have ever been able to identify. She is average at school, perhaps slightly below, but no actual concerns in any subject other than maths. Her reading, spelling and writing have actually all been pretty good though. She is low in some subjects, but perhaps with the possibility of a B or C in one or two others.

She won't go to uni. Academia is simply not her thing. She is currently looking at apprenticeships to apply for, and I have been helping her word an application tonight. She would be better in that sort of practical environment, as if she applies herself to it then she would be pretty good.

They were on their way to Coventry when I put them on the train at Euston. When I was explaining how to use the underground she actually asked me why she couldn't stay on the Victoria Line to get there!!! That was what had me a bit and DD3 raised her eyebrows (though said nothing).

A large part of her problem seems to stem from a lack of confidence. I do worry that she feels in the shadow of her two sisters, both of whom are very academic, top sets at school etc. I have had to explain to her before that everyone is different. Uni is not the be-all and end-all and other options are perfectly fine too.

She will need our support for longer than her two sisters will, I think, but if we can help her to find a suitable niche then that will help.

Jolly good. She will be OK!

It would be super handy if the tube actually went everywhere! Including under the Atlantic to New York...

Wouldn't it just!!

OP. I am glad she was met by your elder DD. Coventry is a much less "obvious" place to navigate transport than London.
The chance to do these things is what some need to develop the skill (theory / patterns come more easily to some).