AIBU to ask your advice regarding my degree?

[StudentInACrisis]

Would be very keen to hear your advice and honest opinions.

To cut a long story short, I am studying for a dual language MFL degree at a RG uni. Currently in my final year, with exams starting imminently.

One of the languages has posed a huge problem to me since the beginning of this year. Actually, problems started to become apparent in my second year but I brushed them off and carried on as normal. It's worth mentioning that I achieved a 2.1 grade in my past three years of study btw, with occasional firsts in module marks.

Although I have tried to tackle the language this year, tbh I have found things quite overwhelming and actually buried my head in the sand about it, if I'm honest. This has impacted my other modules and I am on course to do a lot less well than I had hoped.

I feel that if I achieve a 2.2 this year (which is looking more and more likely), it would throw the past four years' work down the drain... This is going to sound childish but I did well in my A levels and GCSEs too, and I just feel like degrees should if anything represent an improvement on existing grades... Feel like if I achieved a 2.2 (and I honestly do think this would not reflect my potential) it would just undermine everything I've done so far :( BTW this is absolutely NOT a criticism of anyone who has this mark. I'm really not trying to sound snobbish, just trying to convey my current situation and the fact that I have tried so hard in other years...

I have been debating taking a year out (now it would only be a few months obviously) to focus solely on the language, and essentially re-start things, since the beginning of this year but something has always stopped me. My uni have confimed that it would be fine (although unorthodox) but I guess I'm most worried about people's reactions - would they feel as if I was 'giving up'? Would they judge me for the fact that I'm only doing this to improve my grades, as it's not like I have a 'real reason' i.e. a hospital stay? - as well as the fact that maybe later on I'll regret it.

WWYD???? I feel like it is even worse that I'm potentially choosing to do it now, ie just before exams, when I have actually finished all the relevant courses - I really wish I hadn't let it get this far. Obviously it is rooted slightly in exam panic but equally because I just feel deep down that this year as a whole has been terrible, and not representative of my true abilities at all. Am I being a coward?? Please please help, I literally have a matter of hours to decide

I would speak to your potential employer. They are obviously keen to take you as they have offered you a place, but there will still be fierce competition. They tend to base offers on A levels & personality, rather than simply your degree. I'm going to PM you.

I would discuss it with the company who has given you the job offer. I am 90% sure they will tell you to stop being silly, do the best you can in finals and come and join them ASAP without giving your honours classification another thought. They will have had loads more applicants than jobs. They didn't just choose you because you might get a 2:1 - you have valuable skills and potential that they can use this year.

The only circumstance where I'd think it made sense to repeat a year would be if you had your heart set on a career/employer where a 2:2 would be unacceptable. if you job offer is secure either way, don't worry. Once you have done 6 months in your graduate employment no one will give a hoot that you got a 2:2.

Surely one year at 2:2 wouldn't cancel out 3 at 2:1 so you'd still get a 2:1 overall. You can still work on this afterwards so you can demonstrate to an employer if you need to. Do you really believe an extra year would bring you up to speed if you haven't managed to do so yet ? It seems to be more about your need for perfection than necessity.

I do think degree results matter and there's a difference between a 2i and a 2ii. I think if your offer will accept either you should press ahead. Only I f your offer is conditional on a 2i would I consider deferring.

Another person wondering why you haven't spent time abroad as is standard. That would sort your problem language.

Are you sure you're heading for a 2:2? I had a very tricky second year and barely scraped a pass. Final year I got 2:1s and firsts, and managed a 2:1 overall.

What language is it?

The point of a degree is knowledge - absorbing it, growing it, owning it. You have struggled with this. Module marks are secondary,

Until you accept you need to spend time abroad practising this language and really working on it, you will not have done yourself justice and you will simply be gaming the system to maximise your job opportunities.

This tendency towards scrimping on knowledge and understanding is what makes lecturers' hearts sink.

My DH recruits overseas, if the candidate has less than a 2:1, no matter how glowing the references, he rejects. There are a lot of guys out there with better qualifications. Take the extra year and slog it out. It'll be worth it.

LIZS unfortunately yes a poor performance in the third year could have this impact. Where I work the third year carries more weight than the second year so a 2i in earlier years could be counteracted by 2ii in the final year.

If you have a job offer just ask the company and then decide.
If you don't then the issue is is a 2/1 taken over 4 years which will look weird and failure like better than a 2/2 which will mean you aren't considered? Do those companies who recruit 2/1s only not recuit someone who took 4 years for a 3 year degree because they had to resit one of the years?

I would re- do the year, even if your potential employer will accept a 2:2.
It absolutely makes a difference today and will affect your chances of getting onto a good Masters down the line if you so wish.
Competition in the job market is so tough these days, especially for graduates with limited work experience that you owe it to yourself to get the best possible grade, especially if you are capable of it.

Good luck OP!

The grade matters. My DD is applying for graduate jobs and most of them stipulate at leat a 2:1. She has a first (slight stealth boast) but has had no joy on the job front yet. OP do what you can to get a 2:1 even if it means redoing a year.

I think a year out would be a great idea - go and travel/volunteer/work in the country where you need to improve y out r language. It's a brilliant and unusual way of tackling the difficulties you face. A good employer would love that you did this, you'll have memories that last forever and you'll ace your degree.

I'm actually v excited for you! I say this as someone who has worked in education for a long term - people might question you but that's only cause you are swimming against the tide of what is normal.

Go for it OP!

Not read the whole thread.

Both dh and i did languages at uni. Turns out neither of us Wye particularly talented at languages and both of us spent a bit too much of our time having fun instead of studying .

Both finished 2nd year in the 2.2 category. Then i got pg on year abroad so we had an extra hurdle in final year. However, both of us studied hard and although both got a 2.2 we were both quite literally a percentage point away from a 2.1

so really, I'd day that given you are carrying a 2.1 from 2nd year of you get your head down for the next few weeks you can still pull off a 2.1

and if you get a 2.2? Well it isn't the end of the world. dh still got his graduate job and once you get started in employment nobody gives a shit. I'm retraining, again, nobody cared about my classification when accepting me, just that i had the degree.

If your job offer will accept a lower grade then that is the way to go.

If not, could you redo your final year in a university abroad? As an employer I wouldn't be impressed with you redoing the year to get a better grade tbh, I'd be worried about perfectionist traits and in most jobs you want the person to just get the job done to the quality specified.

I would however accept a four year degree where a year was spent abroad, and would accept the grade at the end of four years, without asking what the grade would have been after 3 years. In fact, I'd find a MFL without four years quite odd.

Another mfl graduate here, did you do a year abroad at all or did you end up spending it all in one country and not enough time in the other? That sort of happened to me and I still regret not having spent longer in the 2nd country. If the job will allow you to defer I would absolutely to so and then get our to a country where they speak your language asap to gain the skills you need. I hope you find a solution that works for you.

Would you really need to retake the year? What about spending a term or two working abroad ( or for the company who have offered you a role if that gives you similar scope to improve) then returning for refresher and take your final exams.

Definitely defer. A 2.1 will open doors that a 2.2 won't. Far fewer will question a 5 year degree than a 2.2. And there are always ways to explain it away. I would defer a year in a heartbeat.

One of the languages has posed a huge problem to me since the beginning of this year. Actually, problems started to become apparent in my second year but I brushed them off and carried on as normal

There are so many gaps in your OP, OP -- what was the problem with this language? Was it about your comprehension of it, or about a mismatch of teaching & earning styles, or changes of staff, or what?

As an academic , but not in ML, you've really done the classic head in sand thing. We're used to it. Instead of asking on an anonymouys internet forum (I understand why, really I do, but this is tough love) you need to make an appointment with your Personal Tutor ASAP.

At the places I've taught (all quite competitive) we would never just allow someone to repeat a year or intercalate simply because they hadn't done as well as they wanted to. UNLESS there were other things going on in their lives, which were not caused by their lack of care, work etc, but real obstacles to performing as well as they could. If there have been obstacles (chronic illness, disability, family breakdown, etc etc) then we really do try to help you to deal with them, and try to work out a way of levelling the playing field somewhat. You'll find that there is support.

But I'm surprised you haven't done a year abroad in the country of one of your languages, either working or studying. Is that a possibility you could add now?

Otherwise, I'm afraid my attitude would be that IF the "huge problem" was simply not doing as well as you wanted to (ie 2, ii instead of 2, i marks) AND there were no extenuating circumstances (generally universities call these "mitigation"), then you'd have to suck up the 2, ii. It's not the end of the world. It's an Honours degree and the 2, ii used to be the average expectation. TBH, I really resent the pressure students try to exert by saying "Oh but I need a 2, i" If you need a 2, i do the work. If you have problems see your tutors They have office hours, or email & make an appointment.

So my genuine advice is that
a) today, you need to do a thorough self-reflection on what the "huge problems" are with one of your languages. Be tough with yourself. Once you've done that, think through what you can do to improve your performance. Be constructive, but realistic.

b) tomorrow (not today, it's Sunday) email your Personal Tutor, or your Department's Director of Studies, or the DEpartment's SEnior TUtor, or whoever has been identified to you as the person who can advise you on your overall progress. It's always been standard practice where I've taught that we invite our Personal tutees to see us one-to-one once a term to discuss general progress. The idea is that the relationship develops so that if you hit a bad patch, you can talk to your Personal Tutor about strategies for progress and getting through.

You'll need to state the problem succinctly, and be positive and constructive about how you think you might deal with it, and whether there's support, advice, guidance from the academic staff.

Of course, if there are things outside your own academic performance, now is the time to discuss these. It will be in confidence. If it were with me, I'd be a bit testing at first about why this hasn't been an issue until you realised you might not get the overall degree result you think you "need."

It really is a pity you didn't do something about this in your second year. Just approaching your Finals, it's difficult for even the most caring proactive tutor to help you as much as you think you are gong to need it.

One strategy might be to think about a 1 year Masters at a high prestige/elite/research-led University, as a way of "topping up" a less than stellar undergrad degree. If you really have the talent that your module marks suggest (it's hard for me to know really as I'd need to know the university you're at), then a Masterrs will really give you the opportunity to fly & shine intellectually.

The other thing is to try to remember why you signed up for the degree in the first place. I'm really hoping it was from a love of the study of your languages, a delight in learning, and intellectual curiosity and excitement. If not, and it's about getting the "right" mark to get a job, then a 2, ii is about right ...

I would think about your own personal satisfaction and the job offer rather than what other people think-which really doesn't matter very much.

("I guess I'm most worried about other people's reactions")-whose reactions are you worried about and why?

If you get a job with a 2:2 and a professional qualification I don't think anyone will ask again about your degree classification but if you want to go on to further study I would do whatever gave the best chance of achieving a 2:1

Surely one year at 2:2 wouldn't cancel out 3 at 2:1 so you'd still get a 2:1 overall

Most universities have a way of calculating the overall degree grade which puts much more emphasis on Final year results.

It's called "exit velocity" and tries to adjust for the effect of continuous assessment, assuming that a student will be more accomplished in their third year than in their first (which is why First year marks don't generally count towards the overall degree grade).

I was External Examiner at a place where 3rd year marks were weighted to count for twice the the weighting of 2nd year marks. I think something like that is fairly standard. And there are lots of rues & regs about the "balance of module marks" so if a student has x% of marks at y grade, and their overall total mark is within 2% of the grade mark boundary then they automatically go up a grade.

Marking systems in the final calculations are complex, but try to make it as fair as possible, and allow student's good work to really count. It's also quite hard to fail which is a pity sometimes

I think in the current climate, a 2.1 is a minimum required to do well. With so many graduates, most employers won't look at you with anything lower. Those who say a 2.2 is fine are from a different generation I suspect.

Reading your op it sounds a bit defeatist. I think for that reason alone you may not do well this year. Taking some time out is probably a good idea.

I for starters would start not to care what friends and family think! It is your life and you must do what is right for you. If you have the chance to get a better degree, then certainly take it. I also would not be happy with a 2:2 but as you said, everyone has their own standards. So what if Aunty Marg tuts and huffs secretly about your decision? What if you did listen to that and regretted it later?

I would have thought that the extra time will also allow you to be really confident in that language, something that will shine through with your teaching later.

Good luck!

I took a yr out and got a 1st, would have been 2,2 if I hadnt. If Uni agrees and you really do put all the time off into studying the language go for it