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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To say no to working overtime on my days off and if not - how do I stand my ground with pushy manager?!

23 replies

isla2009 · 23/04/2015 10:42

Hi - I am a very long-time lurker and posting for the first time because I've seen how great the advice has been to others over the years and now could also do with some help from the vipers!

Some background so I'm not accused of dripfeeding:

I am a single mum and started a job 3 years ago which required working full-time, plus evenings and weekends on top for which we got paid overtime but had no control over. I had a 3 year old (with special needs) and a 1 year old at the time. Needless to say, working those hours was tough but with a lot of help from my mum who took on the childcare it was manageable and I needed the money to pay for my eldest sons therapy.

The following year I had a word with my manager and cut down the weekend working as my mum worked weekends so I was struggling to find childcare (plus have any sort of a life!). This was agreed and didn't make much difference to the business as it was paid overtime so could just be allocated to someone else or given to a freelancer who wouldn't cost much more than our overtime rates anyway.

This year the therapy finished and I agreed to go part-time working Mon-Wed (plus evenings) but full weeks over busy season which is April/May. All well so far. I haven't felt the benefit of part-time work yet as I am also studying at the moment so my days off are currently study days but these will soon be over as the exam is in June.

Also, due to business needs we are not allowed to take any annual leave in the first 5 months of the year.

Hence I am really looking forward to the summer when my exams are over, work is less busy and I can make the most of the holidays and spend some much needed time with the kids.

Another manager within the business has a project for which busy season is over the summer holidays. This project will require working on some Thursdays/Fridays (non-flexible). He would like me to be involved. I politely told him I am happy to be involved Mon-Wed but I don't work Thurs/Fridays. He is refusing to take no for an answer. There is another member of staff who could do this (and should do this as it is more related to his area of expertise) but this manager doesn't trust him to do a good job and would rather have me involved as it is important to him that the job goes well (his reputation is on the line).

We have had this conversation a few times now and he wants another meeting to discuss next week if there's anything we can juggle so that I can be available.

I just don't want to! I'm not contracted to work those days, I have sacrificed so much time with my kids over the past few years that I am loathe to give up any more especially as I've not been able to take any time off over Feb half-term or Easter holidays. There is another employee who could do the job but they don't think he's good enough - why should I suffer for being good at my job?! I don't get any thanks or a bonus, just more work piled on because they can trust me. Although the Thurs/Fri working would be paid overtime - I don't want or need the money - time is much more precious to me.

What grates even more is that the manager who wants me to do the work also has two similarly aged children but has a wife at home and also a live-in au pair. He can take holiday whenever he likes and buys extra so that he is actually off 1 week in every month! I covered his project in the Feb half-term so he could go away with his family, yet I'm not allowed holiday at that time of year due to business needs (yes covering his stuff!).

Am I being unreasonable to not want to give up my only days off even though they will be paid and will help the business. If not, how do I stand up for myself next week where we have yet another meeting of him trying to guilt-trip me into giving up more of my summer holidays?

Sorry its so long!! Will really appreciate any advice.

OP posts:
Grapejuicerocks · 23/04/2015 10:46

You've done a great job explaining why not, on here. Just say the same to him. Stand firm.

Moreisnnogedag · 23/04/2015 10:47

Honestly I would just keep reiterating that you'd love to work on the project but will only be available mon to weds. That Thursday/Friday are non-negotiable. Ask him if he wants you to do it, how things can be arranged so it can be done on your contracted days. Repeat until he gets it.

Moreisnnogedag · 23/04/2015 10:48

See I wouldn't go into the personal stuff at all. It's none of his business.

Jelliebabe1 · 23/04/2015 10:49

Perhaps you could put this in an email and copy in HR? Say thank you for the opportunity to work on this project but NO thanks (list reasons), I think that this would be more suited to Mr XXXXX as he works these days and has experience in this area. Yours sincerely isla2009

ApprenticeViper · 23/04/2015 10:53

I would say pretty much exactly what you've said here; your time is more important to you than the extra money at the moment, but you would be happy to work on his project Monday-Wednesday if he can sort this out with your line manager.

There's absolutely no way you should feel guilty for not working the extra days. Plus to do so after saying no would be setting a dangerous precedent for any other time you say you are unavailable to work, "Oh but you said that about X's project and you came in." Stand your ground.

The Mumsnet mantras may also come in handy: "No is a complete sentence" and "That doesn't work for me" Grin

comeagainforbigfudge · 23/04/2015 10:54

First of all, are you interested in the project?

If so, suggest that you say you are "not able to go full time however if they want to renegotiate your hours (ie work wed to fri) then you'll consider it" but only if it's convenient with your childcare providers to swap days around

Or words to that effect Grin

(Also, buying holidays? Is that a thing?! Shock)

isla2009 · 23/04/2015 10:56

Thanks ladies - you're telling me what I would tell anyone else (including the mumsnet mantra!) but for some reason when it comes to me doing it I get stressed and anxious that I'm letting them down.

If I sent an email copying in HR I think it would damage the relationship with said manager and make life difficult going forward - I just want him to accept 'no' and stop arranging meetings and sending me emails trying to get me to change my mind. It's like its now become a battle of wills!

OP posts:
almosthuman · 23/04/2015 10:58

YANBU I would repeat that you are willing to be involved but not on your days off. If he doesn't get the message and keeps putting on the pressure then I would complain to your line manager.

BitterChocolate · 23/04/2015 10:58

I would send him an email beforehand asking what will be discussed in the meeting. Say that nothing has changed in your circumstances, so as far as you're concerned your answer will be the same. If something has changed at his end then could he please email the details so that you can give them careful consideration before the meeting.

It'll probably be more of the same, if so then I would be repetitive in the meeting, "that has already been discussed, I don't feel there is anything more to say, my contracted days are Mon-Wed and I am not available to work extra days".

isla2009 · 23/04/2015 11:01

Yep - buying holidays is part of our package - however it is subject to manager approval. Hence, he can do it but not sure anyone else has!

It's quite difficult to explain the 'project' without outing myself but the days can't be rearranged (as you need to be at a client site on a certain date) and it is either all or nothing (although I think that is just because he would like to give the client consistency - not that it can't be done by different people on different days).

I am not willing to swap my days because of childcare arrangements - which I think is the point I need to focus on. I would love to help you out but unfortunately I can't because I have no childcare on those days... and repeat! Although I am sure he will try and find childcare solutions for me...

OP posts:
isla2009 · 23/04/2015 11:05

Thank you - at least the reassurance that IANBU will give me the strength to stand my ground - it was that nagging feeling and guilt that I was the unreasonable one that was stressing me out!

My line manager will probably agree with him to be honest, she is a workaholic and work is her life (no family or partner) and doesn't understand why all our lives don't also revolve around work so I won't be getting any support there!

OP posts:
BitterChocolate · 23/04/2015 11:08

Wouldn't your manager be pissed off at another manager trying to get you onto his project? Presumably she has things that she will want you to be working on too.

MissMuesli · 23/04/2015 11:13

From you last message I would say make sure you are part of union if you aren't already. Sounds like it might get abit messy and you don't have much in work support. YANBU.

Viviennemary · 23/04/2015 11:15

Keep saying it just simply isn't possible. No no and no again. That's if you are quite sure you don't want to as it could lead to promotion or be beneficial to your career.

comeagainforbigfudge · 23/04/2015 11:15

Aw then Yeh stick to your guns.

Agree with prev poster re union advice/be in one

Also can you phone your hr for an informal chat. Nothing to be recorded type thing. Just looking for advice type chat?

isla2009 · 23/04/2015 11:18

I don't think there is a union?! How do you go about finding out - do private sector employers have unions or is that a public sector thing?? And it's a weird set-up - the line manager I mentioned is more an ops person in charge of the whole department so as long as we're bringing in revenue I don't think she cares what we're working on.

My normal manager agrees with me but there's not much he can do about it and he's not one to get involved if it doesn't affect him - which it won't as if he needs stuff doing there are others available to do it as we're not that busy at that time of year - so if I'm off doing this other stuff it isn't really a problem for him.

Thank you all for taking time out to reply - I do really appreciate it.

OP posts:
Stealthpolarbear · 23/04/2015 11:19

what's the betting his solution involves his au pair providing your childcare :o

isla2009 · 23/04/2015 11:24

Honestly - that would not surprise me!! He's so desperate for me to do this as it directly reflects on him - I did it in the past when I worked 5 days and got great feedback hence why he's so desperate for me to be involved again.

But there is zero benefit for me - I won't get a bonus or a promotion because of it. I'll be lucky if I get a thank you at the end of it. I've sacrificed so much for work the last few years that I've reached the end of my tether and am finally financially in a position to be able to put my children first and they're still trying to take that away from me!

OP posts:
MissMuesli · 23/04/2015 11:25

Unison is a union which I think is for any trade/ area of work. Then there are also more specific unions like GMB for care workers etc. So maybe google "union your trade" and see if there are any industry specific unions that you could join.

Sidge · 23/04/2015 11:30

You are so not being unreasonable.

However I would avoid saying you can't work because of childcare issues or anything like that as no doubt they'll start proposing solutions to those issues.

Just keep it neutral and you don't need to give personal reasons; reiterate over and over - no I can not work those days but am willing to do anything that can be covered on my usual days of work. It's difficult but repeat, repeat, repeat.

Cluesue · 23/04/2015 11:33

Unless there is a bonus or promotion on offer(assuming you'd even reconsider if there was) just repeat again"no,sorry,not possible"and maybe explain the constant pressure is affecting you

isla2009 · 23/04/2015 11:40

Hmm I see your point re not mentioning childcare. But then I feel like I'm just saying no for no good reason and I'm being selfish in not putting the business needs first. I feel like I need to justify why I can't do it. Argh I should be studying and I'm stressing and wasting time on this!

OP posts:
isla2009 · 23/04/2015 11:42

Think I just need to toughen up - let the battle of wills commence. Thank you all for your advice - it is very reassuring knowing I am not being unreasonable as I was doubting myself!

OP posts:
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