To not be happy about Brownies litter picking?

[ImNameyChangey]

I know it's part of what Brownies are about...to be public spirited and I do appreciate that it's important for them to learn about this sort of thing but the area around the Brownie hall is very large, open and is close to a lot of houses and flats.

It's an area with mixed social issues...on the one hand it's middle class but on the other there are people with drug problems.

My DD like many of the other Brownies is only 7 and giving her one glove and a bag and telling her to pick up packets etc isn't sensible imo. There could not only be syringes but dog mess and all manner of other nasty stuff.

I feel like I want to say something to the leaders about this.

YANBU. They should be using sticks for litter picking, not just a glove.

Red can I? You tell that to my Lupus then. I can't actually.

With all due respect OP, you seem to be able to post on MN ok - so not sure why you wouldn't be able to do basic admin jobs (such as updating records ,sending reminder emails to parents ...)?

Red what the feck has the details of my body got to do with you? With all due respect?? Don't quiz me on my disability. You're sounding like an idiot.

I am also a Brownie Guider. We aren't required to do permission slips for activities that happen during normal meeting times in the close vicinity of the usual meeting place. We are however required to do risk assessments for activities which may be risky.

Guiders (and Scout Leaders), are, on the whole, a pretty sensible bunch, and don't knowingly lead the kids in their charge into danger. I'd be willing to bet that someone did a sweep of the area whilst they were planning the activity, to check that the litter was of a suitable variety for kids to pick up.

I don't see what's wrong with only having one glove - you only need to use one hand to pick things like empty crisp packets up.

And the girls would have been closely supervised in small groups at all times.

We've done litter picking a couple of times with Brownies - we select the area carefully to avoid the risk of finding syringes, condoms etc, and the girls enjoy it on the whole, and come back pretty disgusted at the amount of litter around, and vowiing never, ever to throw litter themselves.

If you still object, after reading all the comments here - please do remember that we are all volunteers, and don't always get everything right. I'm sure the Leaders would welcome and act your feedback if you give it in a constructive way, rather than having a rant at them. They may be able to put your mind at rest as to the organisation of the event if you give them the chance.

With all due respect, I think the discussion about Namey's disability is disrespectful and unhelpful.

Girlguiding CAN and WILL find an appropriate role for anyone who wants to be involved, regardless of any disability they might or might not have. So if Namey wanted a role, a suitable one could be found for her. BUT that's the crux of the point - Namey has to want a role. If she doesn't want a role for whatever reason then that is her prerogative.

I see little point in continuing the discussion, although I do feel it is important to spread the word that no-one should feel that they couldn't have a role in Girlguiding because of their disability if they want one.

OP - you stated that you couldn't help at brownies because of your disability. Others pointed out that Brownies/Guides would be accommodating to your needs. You stated that no amount of accommodation would help. I suggested other, non-helping at meeting tasks, that might be possible for you to take on. This was based on the fact that, today, and I understand that you may have bad periods and good periods, you are clearly able to type and read information.

I'm not remotely interested in your disability, I was merely trying to point out that it doesn't have to stop you volunteering in some capacity.

Another Brownie Guider here.

I've read this thread with interest. I am very fortunate in having a superb group of girls AND carers/parents . It does make such a big difference.

I would hope that if we did something they weren't happy with, they would come and tell me. I'm only human and can make mistakes but I would never deliberately put any of the children in my care in danger.

As for the volunteering side of things, there are many reasons why people can't volunteer. It is irrelevant really - don't do it if you don't want to. But there are many ways round 'problems' if you do want to help in some way.

I do sometimes wonder if we shoot ourselves in the foot by complaining about how hard it is though...

If you have concerns, of course bring them up with the leaders! I used to be a leader (but now can't as it clashes with uni classes) and I'd want to hear concerns about safety. But just remember, these are volunteers and we often did get pretty upset about parents coming down on us like a ton of bricks, especially when we were doing our best and following guidelines as best we could.

We are off litter picking this weekend with the brownies/guides. Looking forward to helping our community look nice now the snow has melted.
Sorry to hear you have lupus, that sucks. I have severe Rheumatoid Arthritis so know a bit how you feel. It can get pretty tiring at times dealing with a bunch of loopy kids at guides!

Fucks sake the world's gone made. You're saying we don't know the leader or brown owl or whatever they're called did a sweep but you don't know they didn't. Unless you ask someone this thread is mostly speculation.

Your dd said she just had a glove or whatever but you don't know over what area or if a leader went out first. So you should probably just ask before acting like they threw your daughter in a pit full of Ebola infested snakes.

And they can kneel on a needle any time there outside.

red I suggest you leave my disability and the question of my volunteering out of my thread.

It has NOTHING to do with the issue at hand.

Once again I will repeat...I have NO issue with the littler picking itself...and as it was on site...I have no issue with the lack of permission....I DO have issue with the girls not using litter pickers. It smacks of foolishness to send small girls out in groups of 2....I asked DD and she was paired with a girl of 8...to collect litter alone. That is what happened.

I will ask the leaders about it nicely to make sure that DD has it all correctly...and I will ask about them having litter pickers next time and also that we be told so that I could perhaps put better footwear on DD...she was wearing some flimsy trainers...the sort that are like converse but thinner on the sole. I'd rather she wore boots with proper soles.

This thread has irresistibly reminded me of from Fascinating Aida.

That sounds really reasonable NameyChangey. Any good leader will be happy for suggestions and concerns. We definitely aren't infallible and so would welcome suggestions like the shoe thing or making sure that the children are properly supervised (however, you weren't there, so can you actually be sure about that info? We do operate a 'buddy system here' so kids can be within a confined area by themselves for a while).

Perhaps in future you could go with them if there is an activity, just to supervise for an hour or so? I'm sure they would be grateful to have a fresh pair of eyes on the situation.

For Beaver scouts it is actually part of badge requirements to do something like a litter pick.

No way would I let my kids do this. It sounds quite dangerous and not very much fun. Shouldnt they be tying knots, reading to old people and going on camping trips? Not scrabbling around picking up dirty drugs paraphernalia. At age 7.

OP I don't think you were unreasonable to feel some disquiet at the activity as discribed and your course of action sounds sensible. Improved communication can only be a good thing.

As regards disability and volunteering, some posters may want to consider whether they have stepped over the line into disability shaming. Guiding may accomodate differing levels of ability but individuals might feel it's unfair to the organisation to offer something that's not. gguaranteed - fluctuations in ability is a key feature in many disabilities so you may able to do something one week but not the other. How can you let others rely on you? It's a horrific feeling to let others down because your body has failed and to deliberately put yourself out there when you know how unreliable you can be... can you not appreciate wishing to avoid being set up for a fall or was it more an opportunity to sneer at someone 'hiding' behind her disability because, hey, she's using mumsnet yeah?

Lemon thank you.

Raincorn I thank you also for your thoughtful comments re. disability.

And to all who were being a bit down on the OPs disability, perhaps you don't understand how debilitating Lupus can be.

My MIL has this. She is on steroids and powerful drugs like Methotrexate to control it. She is often exhausted for no reason, or can suddenly be in hospital with pericarditis. She gets painful arthritis too. I have Rheumatoid Arthritis (similar) but it isn't half as bad as hers, so I'm able to volunteer when I can. My MIL is able to do many activities, but she can be easily tired out and looking after a bunch of kids for 2 hours would probably have her recovering for several days after. Please don't judge someones ability to do a task unless you have proper knowledge about it.

Did I come across as being down on the OP's disability? If so, it certainly wasn't intended. I was trying to be helpful and to put a lid on a 'discussion' that I felt was becoming unnecessarily personal.

I stand by what I said. Girlguiding, at least where I am, would find a role that would fit in with a person's needs and abilities, and which would take account of those abilities fluctuating without prejudice or judgement.

All I'm trying to say is there could be role if someone wanted one but that ultimately it is the individual's choice, and their's alone, as to whether they want to, or feel they can, be involved.

If I'm still coming across as being judgemental, please tell me.

I can't imagine any guider not thinking about the risks. It is a constant concern of mine and all my unit helpers that we keep the girls in our care safe. As others have said I would imagine the girls were asked to clear a small piece of land that had already been checked. However I obviously don't know that, just as the OP doesn't appear to know exactly went on either. I do actually think if you send you child to Brownies or similar you do have to trust those who run it. In the next few weeks my unit are out and about taking part in various different activities, scavenger hunts, trails, picnics etc We are not litter picking but I can't guarantee that there will be no dog poo, glass or other nasty items that they might, just might fall over walk in or sit on. Would you stop your child doing these activities as well?

Permanently what you're saying is not something that is relevant to the thread.

TeaTowel I never said I was planning to stop my DD doing ANYTHING!

No but the activities I mention may carry some of the risks you are worrying about for litter picking. So what is the difference?

For example on a scavenger hunt the girls will be using their hands to pick up items from the ground. (Sighs and adds danger of needles to her risk assessment)