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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To not be happy about Brownies litter picking?

160 replies

ImNameyChangey · 22/04/2015 20:58

I know it's part of what Brownies are about...to be public spirited and I do appreciate that it's important for them to learn about this sort of thing but the area around the Brownie hall is very large, open and is close to a lot of houses and flats.

It's an area with mixed social issues...on the one hand it's middle class but on the other there are people with drug problems.

My DD like many of the other Brownies is only 7 and giving her one glove and a bag and telling her to pick up packets etc isn't sensible imo. There could not only be syringes but dog mess and all manner of other nasty stuff.

I feel like I want to say something to the leaders about this.

OP posts:

hotfuzzra · 22/04/2015 21:03

Lots of middle class people have drug problems too.
As long as they're careful and are warned about only picking up empty packets etc I can't see an issue. Why not give her a few extra gloves to be on the safe side?

SuzySheepSmellsNice · 22/04/2015 21:06

Yes, because latex gloves are notoriously effective at protecting small children from Hepatitis/HIV laden needles. Some bright spark has organised a St George's Day Beach Clean for our Cubs. Lots of the parents are objecting.

BuildYourOwnSnowman · 22/04/2015 21:08

I would suggest that they give each child a stick (particularly on a beach!) and instructions on what they should leave - anything sharp or unknown. They shouldn't be scrabbling round with their hand in a pile of rubbish.

Groovee · 22/04/2015 21:10

I'd expect them to have one of those stick things.

HermioneWeasley · 22/04/2015 21:10

Agree, there needs to be a way to make it safe, not just picking up handfuls of litter.

VashtaNerada · 22/04/2015 21:11

Someone should have a look first for needles etc, that's fairly standard. If not, I'd question the robustness of their risk assessment!

Fleecyleesy · 22/04/2015 21:14

I wouldn't allow my 7yo to do it. Due to the risks already mentioned on this thread. I think it would be better if this was the thing brownies thought should be done, that the parents could do it on their behalf. I would be withdrawing my dc from the activity and if the leaders said no, I'd be withdrawing from the pack.

People employed to pick litter generally do it with a litter picker - having small children scrabbling about is a bad idea.

Original poster

ImNameyChangey · 22/04/2015 21:23

It's already happened! It happened tonight with no warning. The listed activity was Geo Caching! I am cross no permission was sought.

OP posts:

SuzySheepSmellsNice · 22/04/2015 21:26

I am 100% sure that they would need permission for this kind of activity. That is not on at all. We have to get permission forms for all activities outside the Scout Hut pretty much.

throwinshapes · 22/04/2015 21:29

We recently did a countryside clean up with the Brownies (and dd7).
We were all given stick litter picker upper thingies.

FadedRed123 · 22/04/2015 21:30

Our local council have made it very difficult for community groups proposing litter collections, citing H&S training, use-of-equipment training and expensive indemnity insurance. Lots of comments on local newspaper website.
The Council Streetpride collectors use long handled litter-pickers and long handled dustpans & brushes, not their (gloved) hands.
I would not allow a child to pick street or park litter, just think about all the times we tell small children NOT to pick up stuff in the street!
Yes the Scout/Guides are all about public service etc, but surely this is not a good idea.

Fleecyleesy · 22/04/2015 21:31

I'd quit the pack and report them to girl guiding. They obviously have good moral and social intentions but to do it without a consent form (or a fudged consent form if the listed activity was geocaching) is disgraceful and shows absolutely zero respect for parents' wishes.

Smoothyloopy · 22/04/2015 21:37

I regularly take part in community litter picks/beach cleans have always been provided with a proper litter picking tool & thick gloves. I would not be happy about a 7 year old picking up litter with just gloves. I'm assuming the activity should be risk assessed first & the potential for needle stick, cuts & infection identified.

Fairenuff · 22/04/2015 22:07

Did she come to any harm OP?

alltoomuchrightnow · 22/04/2015 22:09

we did it with Guides a few times, in the 80s, along the canal, which was always a rubbish dump and still is. We didn't have gloves, it was pretty unpleasant .

mummytowillow · 22/04/2015 22:15

My DD Brownie group did this. There wasn't any info to convince me they would be protected from syringes/glass so she didn't do it.

Your child, your choice.

Capricorn76 · 22/04/2015 22:16

I would be so pissed off at this that I'd make a formal complaint and probably withdraw my child from the pack. I wouldn't be able to trust them again.

Original poster

ImNameyChangey · 22/04/2015 22:23

Mummy well it wasn't! As I said...no permission was sought. They did it without telling us.

OP posts:

Pantah630 · 22/04/2015 22:32

There would have been plenty of adult leaders there to supervise so coming into contact with undesirables is unlikely. I'm very surprised they were given one glove and asked to pick up off the floor to be honest, did you see this yourself or are you relying on your DC for information? When we do these with the Cubs, the local council lend us the grabbers, gloves and sacks there is no touching litter with a gloved or ungloved hand. Parents are aware, if they've bothered to check the programme, of what we are doing, we don't ask for permission slips as to be honest it's unnecessary and some parents are enthused enough to come and help.

I can understand you being pissed off that they weren't doing the advertised activity and if the one glove picking was true, just raise your concerns with the leaders and maybe offer to assist some evenings as an offsite geocache would likely need more leaders to supervise than a quick litter pick around the brownie hut.

wheresthelight · 22/04/2015 22:37

I am a brownies leader

the leaders will have done a sweep before hand to check for dog mess and drug paraphernalia I assure you. if they weren't leaving the immediate area of the meeting place then permission slips are not necessarily needed. we are not idiots and do not put kids in harms way!

BackforGood · 22/04/2015 22:40

I think YABU.
I don't know the specific area they are clearing, but the Leaders will have risk assessed it, and talked to the girls first.
I've taken part in many litter picks in my time and never picked up, or seen, or come across anyone else on the litter pick who has seen needles. I'm not saying they aren't areas where thre might be needles, but they are not likely yo be the area chosen to work on.

Permanentlyexhausted · 22/04/2015 22:42

I'm a Brown Owl and this isn't something I'd do with my Brownies although I worry sometimes that I'm too risk averse with our activities!

I would check with the leaders about what actually took place this evening as I'm guessing your only hearing the version of a 7 year old. I'm not suggesting your DD is wrong but it's always good to get the full facts before you go in all guns blazing!

They should have had consent forms signed by the parents if the activity took place away from the usual meeting place. They should also have done a risk assessment for the activity. Do you have a copy of the consent form? If so, what does it say on it?

I would contact the leaders and ask them to run through this evening's activities with you as you have concerns about it from what your daughter has told you. Depending on their answer, you could then contact your District or Division Commissioner with your concerns.

Girlguiding should be safe for all participants. We should remember though that it is run by volunteers - just ordinary folk (e.g. just a mum like me). Support and training are not always as good as they could be, leaders may not have kept up with the latest 'best practice', and different people have different perceptions of risk. If leaders are running activities that are unsafe or not properly risk assessed, it is important that it is brought to their attention or to the attention of those higher up the chain so that they can be reminded or retrained to keep guiding safe for everyone.

WheresTheHoneyMummy · 22/04/2015 22:49

We're doing this with our Guides soon as the Community Action part of our programme. We will have done an in depth risk assessment of the area first, all girls will be in groups with at least one adult, they'll have gloves and sticks. The activity is on the programme we give to parents - which hopefully they'll have read! And as we're starting and finishing at our usual meeting place we don't need permission forms - as per Girlguiding rules.

Original poster

ImNameyChangey · 22/04/2015 22:53

I have no reason to doubt what dd told me. She's seven not a toddler.

LIght you don't know they did a sweep...YOU might have done a sweep but you don't know that our group's leaders did that. With all due respect you don't know anything about what they did. So you can't speculate.

The point is that for this type of activity, proper equipment should have been provided and permission sought. I wouldn't have refused. Most wouldn't...but one glove in an area full of bushes and long grass? Not good. The hut is surrounded with common land.

OP posts:

Original poster

ImNameyChangey · 22/04/2015 22:54

Honey well this was at their usual meeting place but at least some prior knowledge would have been good. That and proper equipment!

OP posts:

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