Need some MN legal brains/ clear thinking/ someone to point the way forward....please

[Dowser]

Ive put this here because it gets a lot of traffic but feel free to move.

So, deep breath, here we go.

I've got a cousin I'll call Ann and husband Jim.

Jim goes to the doctors in 2011 complaining of bleeding from rectum and stomach pain.

GP examines him , finds a haemorrhoid and treats him accordingly.
Jim makes several visits of this nature and each time is treated for 'piles'.

Never is he sent for or suggested he has a colonoscopy.

2012 this is still ongoing. It's where I come into the picture. We don't live near Ann and Jim but we get together for a family celebration,get on so well together that we start seeing each other four or five times in the year for a week at a time. So, I too become aware of his problems.

2013 Jim still having problems. On a couple of their other breaks away Jim ends up at a and e in pain. Even ends up in a and e at his locall hospital and still no red flag is waved.

Come sept 2013 a new doctor joins te practice as the other three are retiring. Jim sees this new doctor who is quite alarmed at what has gone on. Jim is sent for a colonoscopy.

And you know what is coming next....He is diagnosed stage 4 colorectal bowel cancer in feb 2014!

He has chemotherapy, radiotherapy. An operation to remove the tumour. He is left with a permanent stoma bag and 16 weeks of aggressive chemotherapy.

He never made the last chemotherapy. He was too sick, weak in too much pain for them to Administer it.

He was taken into hospital where he died three weeks later in march 2015.

Before his surgery in 2014 he was advised to see a solicitor about his misdiagnosis. I used to work for one of the big companies ( I'm not a solicitor ) and Juim took my advice and instructed this company.

This week Ann has had the heartbreaking news that they will not proceed with the case. They have employed an expert witness and in Jims notes there is no mention of bowel problems in a crucial 10 month period between early 2012 and 2013.

Excuse me if I'm a bit vague at this point because I dont have the notes in front of me.

The expert witness( an oncologist ) can only go on what's in front of him. He states in his report that the outcome of Jims illness would have been the same if he had had intervention 5 month earlier which I don't disagree with but what about earlier intervention in 2012. These are the notes that we just don't know about.

So, the solicitors won't proceed with the case..because of lack of evidence.

Obviously we need to see Jims notes. We also need to talk to the solicitors before they close the case in ten days time.

Just wondered if anyone has any experience of this. I'm out of my depth here but it just seems like Jim has been treated really shabbily and I want to do my best for Ann. It doesn't help being so far away. I just worry that if I start interfering without knowing what I'm doing I could make things worse.

I don't understand how the GPs have not documented Jims pain and bleeding in those crucial 10 months. Gawd, if I knew about it, the doctors certainly would. Jim was no shrinking violet. He would have complained vociferously to the doctors.

I am sorry for your loss and Ann's but it was hugely unhelpful of someone to suggest that a successful medical claim could be worth £2m. The solicitors certainly won't have said that, I suspect it will have been some random neighbour/acquaintance who has no knowledge whatsoever of the case.

Medical negligence is very difficult to prove and cases drag on for years (and years). The fact that your cousin had other health problems which prevented him working won't help, neither will the fact that his mortgage was already paid off and he was therefore financially in a better place than a younger person.

I do have sympathy with the situation. MIL has bowel cancer and has just finished chemo - for the moment. Her cancer is treatable but not curable so it's really a question of how long her life can be prolonged. Her path to diagnosis was quite similar to the one you describe and she went through a long period (although not as long as your cousin) of doctor appointments, mis-diagnosis and refused requests for a colonoscopy. When diagnosed, I think she felt quite angry and as if something more could have been done when she first requested help. However, her oncologist explained in great depth that her cancer is very difficult to diagnose early on, that it can grow rapidly and that even if they had done a colonoscopy when she first asked, nothing might have shown up. Her early symptoms could also have been attributed to several other causes and genuinely may not have been related to the cancer. Your cousin may also have only had piles when he first went to the doctor.

I agree it was unhelpful for the sum of £2m to have been mentioned. Only upon thorough analysis could a figure have been produced. As a PP has said, if Jim hadn't worked for a few years due to other health issues then £2m is highly unlikely (unless he had a non work related source of income.)

You're unlikely to have only 10 days. Contact the solicitor and say you're undecided about what to do and need some further thinking time. Ask them what the limitation period is for bringing the claim and ask for the medical notes.

You are all being so helpful and I'm very grateful. I've got a pad here and keep jotting things down..

Unexpected your post has been really useful. I am gaining in clarity with this.

For our own peace of mind I think we need to discuss it with the solicitor. I along think we need to see the notes.

Someone pointed out that at this point we don't have enough information and that is true.

I knew mumsnet would come shining through.

I agree with PPs, you need to see the notes. If there are no entries from the times you know he was seen, they you (your solicitor) will need to make a request to see the appointment records. Lots of GPs don't record enough in the notes - doesn't mean their practice is negligent, but it does make them hard to defend when something goes wrong.

Please try and forget about any numbers that have been thrown around - it's not helpful (?or accurate) and won't bring Jim back

A family member had a similar situation, multiple trips with symptoms to the doctor over a prolonged period, told they had mild conditions and by the time the cancer was finally identified it was terminal.

The thing is, it is very tempting to want someone to blame. Because it isn't fair to be taken at what is a relatively young age. And for the grieving widow, having a cause and someone to go after can be more attractive than having to wave a fist at the universe at the unfairness of it all. But most people who have rectal bleeding and piles just have piles. Most people with a reoccuring cough don't have lung cancer. Most people who get headaches don't have a brain tumour.

The problem though is that it sounds like the available evidence doesn't support a negligence claim. So even if more could or should have been done and lack of joined up thinking had contributed, you may really struggle to prove it. By all means get the medical records reexamined but if the consultations and advice aren't there, they aren't there.

Rachie, the solicitors obviously have got the notes.

The damages claim would be made of up two main elements, financial loss - mainly loss of earnings - and damages for pain and distress. I have no idea what the latter would be, but given that Jim would probably have had to undergo some pretty painful treatment even if the cancer had been diagnosed in time, I doubt that the figure would be that high: the courts are that generous with that element of damages.. If he was unable to earn anyway due to unrelated health problems, the damages for loss of earnings would have been minimal, if anything.

So, if it's any consolation to Ann down the line, she needs to know that it's incredibly unlikely that £2 million was ever on the cards.

Sorry, that should have been "The courts aren't that generous..", not "are".

I'm currently just getting to (hopefully) the completion of a medical negligence case with my sister. From almost the get go the hospital agreed to settle (without admitting liability). Despite that it has been a long, gruelling and difficult process. It's been 2 and a bit years. The lawyers's fees are likely to come close to the actual claim. She has been on benefits for the past two years and these benefits must be paid back from the claim. She is still alive, but will never work, has mobility and continence issues, epilepsy, other complex needs and PTSD. Before this happened, she ran a successful business employing a significant number of people. She skied, mountain biked and ran a local youth club. She now can't leave the house unaccompanied.

If Jim was not working and therefore not earning, any compensation sum would cover only care needs and very small amount for damages. The sum would be discounted to take into account the other health issues you mention which might have affected quality of life/ability to earn. (There is a dispute whether my sister's epilepsy is a result of her time in hospital, or would have developed anyway)

If the expert witness says no case, then I'd say it's not worth pursuing. By all means, if you have the money, pay for a second opinion. It's likely that the first expert witness's evidence will be used by the NHS to support their side so you're already starting from the back foot.

Google the average claims made from your local NHS trust. The amounts are small and in no way represent the impact on people's lives that medical mistakes can have. No disrespect to lawyers, but they are the only ones who really benefit from this.

I'm sorry this has happened to your family, but as other posters say, look to the future.

Icimoi I got the impression from the op's original post that they hadn't had sight of his notes in 2012 when he first went to the doctor.

So sorry to hear that Olly but that's great advice.. It sounds like we are on a hiding to nothing.

We have to see those notes to see for ourselves what has/ hasn't been recorded but with all the excellent advice I've had here its looking like a dead duck.

Your poor sister. Just awful. I hope she gets something. Especially for the care component.

Chatenoeuf is right. I'm a lawyer, and it's a pretty typical defendant tactic to say, for example, there is no evidence of your fall therefore it didn't happen, which really only means the defendant is shit at reporting as well as safety! In a clinical negligence sphere, you will struggle on causation and loss. Really, where somebody has died, it is very difficult to claim because there is no loss (sounds callous I know): you claim ON BEHALF OF the deceased and so (save for bereavement damages which are minimal) you are claiming for their pain and suffering, not the life they would have had. The defendants will also argue that had it be spotted earlier it wouldn't have made any difference. The burden lies on you to prove (beyond 50% likelihood) that it would have, which is difficult to do. That said it does sound like negligence - it's a matter of whether you really want to go through the horrible process to prove that, for which you will get minimal compensation unless Jim was a high earner who kept his family. It won't bring him back and it will take years.

OP I had piles and stomach pain off and on a few years back.
I was never referred for any investigative tests. .

I'm fine now.
I mention this to point out that Jim's initial symptoms perhaps didn't warrant further investigation