To think that advertising Vaping products on TV is wrong

[DarthVadersTailor]

Recently I've thought about this a fair amount and have come to the conclusion that I really don't feel it's a good idea to advertise this stuff on TV. Cigarettes are obviously banned from pretty much all advertising now, I know that technically these things are a 'nicotine replacement/giving up tool' and advertising Nicorette gum for example is common place but can't help but feel it somewhat glamorises the use of nicotine. Many folks I know use these instead of fags now, to me it's no different than advertising fags themselves because ultimately they do the same job albeit in different ways!

I'm sure plenty will disagree with me on this but I see lots of young people use these and I'm sure I've read a few times before that many of the youth trying them weren't addicted to smoking in the first place, and perhaps advertising them so freely plays a part in this.

Thoughts? AIBU to think this is a bit wrong or am I overthinking on a non-issue here?

I think they should be advertised as an ex smoker and vaper I would recommend vaping to anyone wanting to quit. I don't think they should mention the word cigarette in the ads. I think that is what is getting some people confused and or hysterical. No there haven't been conclusive tests to say vaping is 100% safe but you would have yo be an idiot not to realise it is safer than smoking. Also no conclusive tests have been done to say tampons are 100 safe bit they still advertised on TV and sold freely. There was an article in the guardian 2 days ago about tampons.

Meech you're not meant to actually. I use a vape but I complained about a man doing it in MacDonalds recently. It's not on.

There is ongoing research into the safety and it appears so far that the aount of toxins ingested is so negligible that any smoker would be stupid not to swap to a vaporizer instead of cigarettes.

If everyone who smoked switched to vaping thousands of lives would be saved every year. Smoking kills one out of two smokers, there's no evidence that vaping will kill anyone.

I agree that they should be regulated, but as there is no evidence of public health risk with second hand vapour there is no argument for banning it indoors.

I've been vaping for almost 2 years, no more wheezing, no more chest infections, no more stinky smoke around my children.

There is no evidence to show that vaping is a gateway to smoking. Why would someone swap from a cheap enjoyable tasty habit to an expensive smelly one which will probably kill you??

The misinformation about E cigs is rife.

No oils in e juice as someone else pointed out. Nicotine on its own really isn't that bad. Addictive sure but not that harmful unless you are injecting it.

Lots of people don't even inhale it into their lungs and plenty of people go on to no nicotine juice anyway.

I quit 3 years ago (was shocked when I realised it was 3 years and not 2 like I thought) and I did it with no cravings, no hardships just enjoyment that I preferred it over fags by miles.

If it wasn't for vaping I would still be smoking 40 a day!

As for kids thinking it is cool? Well rather that than them thinking fags are cool I guess. The kids who vape because they think it is cool are probably the same kids who would pick up fags if e cigs weren't avaliable.

YABU. If ecigs are not advertised, how are smokers going to know about them?

Smoking kills 100,000 people each year in the UK - half of all regular smokers. They lose on average a decade of life.

Ecigs may not be 100% safe (name anything at all that is) but they are massively massively safer than smoking, even taking into account the most cautious of 'what if?' theoretical risks. Most credible experts estimate them to be around 95% safer than smoking.

... for example.

Survey after survey finds that regular use of ecigs among never smokers is negligible and evidence of anybody moving from vaping to smoking is non-existent. ASH Wales' recent survey on young people and ecigs found that:

Of the 608 young people who had never smoked tobacco cigarettes just 9.4% (n=57) had ever tried an e-cigarette with just over half of these (n=30) having tried an e-cigarette once and 18 having tried an e-cigarette a few times. Regular use by never smokers was negligible at 0.16% (n=1). Of those respondents who reported using both e-cigarettes and tobacco cigarettes at some point (n=84), 98% had first used tobacco cigarettes suggesting the absence of any gateway theory.

ONS found that E-cigarettes are almost exclusively used by smokers and ex-smokers. Almost none of those who had never smoked cigarettes were e-cigarette users.

Even the recent CDC survey which everybody is up in arms about because it's alarmist bullshit, failed to find evidence of regular e-cigarette use among never smokers.

Save your concern for the 207,000 youngsters who start smoking actual fags each year in this country and save your outrage for the countless small shops which continue to sell to children.

YABU, If the adverts were banned, then so should adverts for alcohol.

I can see where you're coming from, but I'd rather see someone vaping instead of smoking or drinking in the street for that matter!

I've never smoked, but my parents did like chimneys. I didn't realise just how bad I 'smelled' until I left home. The smell really turns my stomach now.

Well done for everyone that's made the switch or even given up cigs.

Thanks everyone for your responses, have found it all rather informative and interesting

I'm pleased you've come back to catch up I think this is worth answering -

With a puff on a Vaping thingy I've literally bugger all idea what dosage I'm actually taking and what that equates to in terms of having a fag.

Cigarettes don't deliver nicotine in a measured dose either. There may be a measured amount of nicotine in each fag but some fags - the first of the day for e.g. - will be hoovered deeply, right down to the filter while others - the umpteenth fag on a boozy night out - will more or less burn themselves out in the ashtray with only an occasional shallow puff. You're a smoker so you know what happens if you take in too much nicotine. You feel a bit sick or headachy and put it down. This is called 'self-titration' and vapers do it too.

The nicotine in ecigs is delivered and absorbed in a different way from the nicotine in lit tobacco and this results in a much gentler and slower rise in nicotine levels within the system. The image here is from Farsalinos et al in Nature. You can clearly see the difference between the massive spike in nicotine levels in the first five minutes of smoking a cigarette (the green line) and the much gentler rise using even a second generation device (red line). It takes a vaper about half an hour to reach the same nicotine level they would get from a fag.

This is why vapers tend to use their devices in a 'little-and-often' manner when given the option and is probably why Jessica2point0 feels she is more addicted. The good news is that Jessica is likely to have an easier time quitting vaping than if she was quitting smoking:

CONCLUSIONS: Some e-cigarette users were dependent on nicotine-containing e-cigarettes, but these products were less addictive than tobacco cigarettes. E-cigarettes may be as or less addictive than nicotine gums, which themselves are not very addictive.

(This is a rehash of a couple of posts I made on a chat thread a week or so ago. I think it's worth reposting here as chat disappears.)

Thanks plenty. I've just found out that you can get 0% nicotine flavours, so I'm gonna get some to deal with the nicotine addiction first, then address the habit.

Jessica I went from 30 cigarettes a day to vaping at 18mg nicotine then down to 9mg then down to 0mg nicotine over a year. I do not smoke or vape at all now and haven't for nearly 2 years. I was fed up with having to recharge batteries and the liquid leaking in my handbag. With no nicotine addiction anymore it was easy (for me) to just say "stuff it" and stop completely.

I stopped last time vaping but stupidly started again when i had a very rare night out, also the vaping was making me feel sick with a bad chest. Thanks to help on the stop smoking section on here i tried 18mg vg/pg liquid instead of 18mg pg liquid, that seemed to help but i have realised the 18mg was too much, was using 12mg but have now gone down to 6mg which is much better, i am having non of the problems i had last time.

This morning i got up and didn't even bother vaping till lunch time, so in a week im down to 6mg and feel fine, no bad throat or chest and no sickly feeling

Vaping seems to be the new big social thing. In France last month we saw several vaping cafes. There's one opened up in our town now and a massive vaping store is about to open it's doors.

Jessica what a lot of people do is buy the next strength down and mix them, slowly decreasing to zero. There's loads of good advice and support on the Stop Smoking topic.

Good luck!

Really interesting post *Plenty. Thank you for sharing that!

I'm certainly thinking that it might pay to do more research on vaping itself, I think I'd like to know more about exactly how they work and the possible dangers/benefits. Knowledge is power after all, hence why everyone's responses is very much appreciated.

However I am also wanting to have a closer look at the social impact it has in terms of being 'cool' to vape and investigating about people who've never smoked before starting to vape, I certainly don't buy the notion that nicotine on its own isn't harmful because from the little I've read (and admittedly it's not exactly a huge amount here) it doesn't seem to be harmless at all.

I think maybe I find it strange that it's advertised more than 'unreasonable' on reflection - We are used to not seeing tobacco advertising so seeing e-cigs seems weird whereas adverts for alcohol, for example, are very commonplace. The strangeness is also present because the adverts don't seem to focus as much on the quitting aspect of them but rather the technical aspects of the device tthemselves, so in my mind I don't associate them as a quitting aid in the same way I would with Nicorette gum or patches.

Lots of food for thought at any rate!!

(perhaps I need a hobby......)

Nicotine is harmful on its own, but much less harmful than cigarettes. I can't remember where the actual research is, but I'm pretty sure there was a comprehensive study done which suggested that vaping is about equivalent to drinking coffee. For me, it's the very idea that I'm addicted to something - it just pisses me off. Thanks for the tips, will probs head over to the stop smoking section.

Yes, on its own nicotine is about as harmful as caffeine - i.e. not very harmful but has a few small risks. We have quite a bit of data on the effects of nicotine because of its use in NRT (ecigs contain the same pharma-grade nicotine as NRT). The Royal College of Physicians reviewed the data and concluded:

- Extensive experience with nicotine replacement therapy in clinical trial and observational study settings demonstrates that medicinal nicotine is a very safe drug.

- Adverse effects are primarily local and specific to the mode of delivery used.

- NRT does not appear to provoke acute cardiovascular events, even in people with pre-existing cardiovascular disease.

- There is no direct evidence that NRT therapy is carcinogenic or influences the risk of other common smoking-related diseases in humans.

- Evidence on the safety of NRT during pregnancy is limited, but suggests that NRT does not increase the risk of major developmental anomalies or reduce birth weight. However, NRT may increase the risk of minor musculoskeletal anomalies. Further evidence on these effects is needed.

- Evidence on the safety of long-term use of NRT is lacking, but there are no grounds to suspect appreciable long-term adverse effects on health.

- In any circumstance, the use of NRT is many orders of magnitude safer than smoking

NICE guidance recommends the use of NRT for children as young as 12 and for pregnant women who cannot quit without it and also recommends long term use of NRT when necessary as a harm reduction strategy.

However I am also wanting to have a closer look at the social impact it has in terms of being 'cool' to vape and investigating about people who've never smoked before starting to vape

I spend about half my time being told I look 'too cool' and the other half being told I look like a twat There is simply no evidence that non-smokers are taking up vaping and lots of people have been looking really hard.

ASH: Less than 1 per cent of never smokers have ever tried electronic cigarettes and virtually none continue to use them.

Smoking in England: Use of e-cigarettes by never smokers is rare in the UK and US

Public Health England: Electronic cigarettes are primarily used by current and former smokers, and only about 0.5% of never smokers in Great Britain have tried the product.

(see also the links I posted here).

the adverts don't seem to focus as much on the quitting aspect

That's because they're not allowed to. Current rules on advertising are here:

Marketing communications / advertisements must not contain health or medicinal claims unless the product is authorised for those purposes by the MHRA.

Unless a product gets a medicinal licence, advertisers are not allowed to say they can help you quit or that they are safer than smoking, even though both are true.

I don't like a lot of the advertising I've seen for the big name products (Blu, VIP etc.), it tends to be horribly over sexualised for some reason. 's OK though IMO. The original version was pulled. At the beginning, the man said 'I used to smoke normal cigarettes, but after I quit, I tried these.' The ASA ruled that this could encourage non-smokers to try ecigs so it was edited to 'I used to smoke normal cigarettes, I tried these' which is utterly meaningless but probably the best they could do, given they're also not allowed to suggest he used them to quit smoking.

If you want some really good background reading I can recommend Clive Bates' Briefing on the science and policy of e-cigarettes and vaping It's long because it covers everything but it's an easy read.

I've used a prescribed from the doctor Nicorette inhaler before and that means I was inhaling nicotine into my lungs still as a way of giving up.
Much prefer vaping though as at least that tastes nice. Cheaper too.

Some people will literally suck (geddit?) the life out of any pleasure known to man and woman

I've always wondered if vaping was safer than vicks vapo rub, when people put vapo rub in a bowl of hot water with the towel over their head to inhale the fumes?