To not really like or approve of St George's Day?

[BlueDressingGown]

I don't like it and I don't really want my children to participate in our village parade.

I don't really give a monkeys about 'patron saints' and am not of the faith that initially made him a saint. I don't believe in saints. I don't think people should be sainted. He was nothing to do with England and never came to England. (I'm also not English, by the way, but now living in England, but that's not why I don't like him!)

I also feel that this day gets seized on by English nationalists and used to stir up racist feelings regarding people who 'aren't really English'.

Why not just have an 'England Day'?

Problem is, you don't have an obvious candidate, the way places like the US, Canada, and Australia do (we all have national holidays of this sort). How would you go about picking a date for an "England Day"?

You may have heard the saying "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel". Idiot nationalism is hardly a uniquely English problem. Racists and xenophobes claiming to be acting in the name of patriotism isn't unique to England, either. We've got plenty of them here in the US, too.

yes but unopan London and England are different countries.

In London, Leeds or Brum, of course you'd reflect 'Englishness' in it's full multicultural sense if you were organising an event, particularly a school event.

The main point is that anyone can join in though, isn't it? So in that sense it's inclusive to all stripes of English people and all stripes of non-English people?

It's about England and being English not multi cultural or anything else.

I find this offensive.

What is an English person? This country has been repeatedly invaded and we are in fact a mixture of things (Norman / Roman / Danish to name a few).

Either St George's day is an inclusive day for "English" people of all backgrounds / religions and hues, some of whom have lived here and been part of this society for generations, or it is racist.

And London and other big multicultural cities are part of England.

yes of course they are, my comment was tongue in cheek. NOnetheless attitudes and ideas in London and the big cities are poles apart from small town and village England. It is merely an observation.

Yes. I am mainly offended by the St George's day being only for "English" people comment.

I suppose St George's day is more likely to make an appearance outside the big cities but the thought of some people being excluded from any celebration because of their blood not being "English" enough is awful!

same here - so many of us have eg Irish or Polish parents and grandparents, among many others. so yes celebrate England but not 'Englishness'

I always think, if it was good enough for the venerable Bede to suggest it, it is good enough for me. Not enough people doff their caps these days to the venerable Bede IMO.

It is an occasion for people who chose to live in England to celebrate the heritage and traditions of England. Turning it into a multi-cultural event would be an utter fiasco; anyone remember the naval gazing that went into what to put in the Millenium Dome?

A mead and Bede day - stroke of genius from TSS there

Did Bede drink mead?

That's hardly unique to England, either. I remember, once when I was in high school, hearing a comment about some politician complaining that science awards were rarely won by people with "American names". I said, "American names like what, like Sitting Bull?" It's rather silly to claim that one group of immigrants to America count as "Americans" and another doesn't, the same is of course true of other countries. This kind of argument has gotten rather nasty in some times and places- like the question in the last century of whether or not German Jews count as Germans.

You bet he did Bux

It was lore if one was venerable.

Some might say that I'm a little Englander. That's ok, I love my country. I lived in another country for 5 years and was more than happy to join in their celebrations of their saint days. And very many of these people loved our Englishness, particularly our manners, and generous spirit. That flag means a lot to people.

In my town we have just seen the annual Vasilakis celebration. Fantastic festivities, and inclusive for all who wish to join, learn and celebrate.

But I can imagine the faces at the Temple if some hanky-wringer rocked up to say it should indeed be more multi-cultural.

Celebrations of heritage aren't racist.

Racists are racists.

Any excuse to show Kenneth Brannagh in Henry V again...

Celebrations of heritage aren't racist.

They can be, actually. The Nazis probably would have described some of the things they did as celebrating German heritage. People have done racist things in the name of "preserving heritage". If the celebration has too many overtones of "we're better than them," then it can shade toward the racist.

One good safeguard against that may be to let anyone who wants to self-identify as having a particular heritage do so. If a German Jew wants to self-identify as German and celebrate their German heritage, let them. This has the additional benefit of annoying the racists, so maybe they stay away and don't ruin the party for everyone else.

But what is an English person? Genuine question. I think it might be easier in the US where everyone is American. Here immigrants might eventually call themselves British but often don't call themselves English. Yet if you have lived here for a generation or more how are you not English?

I have an English father and an Italian mother and children who in their turn have an Indian father. This is our country (England). We have interesting bits of heritage but this is our home.

I think it might be easier in the US where everyone is American.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Good one! You owe me a laptop and a dry pair of pants.

We have plenty of people who want to exclude others from being American on various grounds. Try being a Mexican or a Muslim in a lot of places here. You'll find lots of people who don't consider you a "real American". If you go back a century or so, the same was true of East Asians and Jews. Go back further, and it was true of Catholics. We only elected our first Catholic President in 1960. Our Constitution explicitly prohibits religious tests for holding national office, but prejudice is another matter. If you want to see a really nasty present-day example of this, Google "obama muslim". Actually, don't, if you want to preserve any of your faith in humanity. There is probably someone, somewhere in this country, who thinks white Americans are more "real Americans" than Native Americans. I would question their logic, but I'd probably be assuming facts not in evidence- racists aren't known for their logic.

Well if you don,t like it for some or other excuse/reason then don't participate and don't moan when others ask you why
I find the amount of publicity etc given to St Patrick day is way over the top and an St Georges parade wouldn't happen in Ireland but that's just the way it goes
Its one day when we can fly our own flag and be happy about it

"an St Georges parade wouldn't happen in Ireland "

well with the colonial background it is hardly surprising is it?
St Patricks day exported so well due largely to the Irish diaspora and if you had read your history you would know where that started.
So no, they will not be celebrating St George in Ireland.
Think I might go offline, so many eedjits online

ttfn
yes i am an idiot and i dont feckin care :/

I am the daughter of a refugee. I don't find the idea of St George's day the least bit offensive. I think far too many people look for offense in areas where no offense is intended.

I like this

I don't think St George's day per se is offensive. A St George's day only for the "English" as a poster suggested upthread would be IMO.

geekmommy I stand corrected . I do think however (and maybe I am wrong again) that Americans tend to refer to themselves as such regardless of their country of origin (though their "americanness" might be repudiated by other Americans who consider themselves more American ) while British people of Indian origin (let's say) will generally refer to themselves as British Indian rather than English, despite being 2nd or 3rd generation. Why is there this difference?

I love St Andrews Day now that it's become a public holiday