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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not understand the scaremongering about Labour and the SNP?

84 replies

Kampeki · 20/04/2015 22:25

I am genuinely struggling to understand.

If there is a minority Labour government, the SNP will presumably vote with that government in a lot of the more "left-wing" votes, with or without any deal. Raising the top rate of tax, for example, or introducing a mansion tax. It is my understanding that they support these policies anyway.

The SNP will presumably vote against the government on issues like the renewal of Trident. However, unless they choose to play a very dodgy political game, the Tories will surely vote with the government on such issues, so the SNP will be irrelevant.

What issues would fail to attract support from either side of the house, thereby forcing the Labour Party to enter into a potentially damaging deal with the SNP?

OP posts:
iHAVEtogetoutofhere · 21/04/2015 14:54

I have to agree Rose

The pictures of Sturgeon saying she 'will support' Labour to get the Tories out of Westminster and warning him that 'the country will never forgive him' if he doesn't do a deal with her are nauseating.

Just a few short months ago Scotland was divided and big business was talking of pulling out as she and her ilk tried to divide the UK. Be under no illusions, she is still trying: 'another referendum will be the people's decision'? Aye right. And how will they decide what the 'people' want - by having a referendum on another bloody Referendum!

The nhs in Scotland is being trashed.
Education is already trashed.
Racism (to the English) is more than tolerated.

The fiscal deficit is TWICE that of the rest of the UK.

Be careful what you wish for indeed.

Plonkysaurus · 21/04/2015 14:54

man again I disagree quite strongly with your post.

The recession (global, mind, not solely a construct of the previous Labour party, despite what right wing media would have us believe) could have provided us with an opportunity to see other parts of our society as more important than money. To cut the crap, I'd say this government has made plenty of short termist decisions that are storing up problems (taking resources away from the young and vulnerable, and diverting them to pensioners springs to mind).

And finally I'm just going to pull this apart a bit...Being a white middle class male isn't what it was! Are you even aware that you're on a broadly female dominated chat forum, with posters from the whole range of socio-economic backgrounds, who, in the main are interested, educated mothers? Do you have any idea how your bit of male wisdom could be perceived?

worksallhours · 21/04/2015 15:38

Labour are a bunch of feckless spendthrifts who seem hell bent on bankrupting the country in order to please their target voters.

I kinda disagree with this. Labour eternal problem is that they categorically do not understand high finance or micro-economics .. or basically how a bloody economy works. There is a great quotation from the 1930s from a Scottish labour politician about this, where he says the "High finance destroyed the Labour government, and will destroy it again, and again, and again."

Which, of course, we saw repeated in 2007. It's baked in the Labour cake.

You can, I believe, see this very plainly when you look at GDP, money supply, overall credit conditions, debt levels and Brown's spending plans post-2001 -- when this whole deficit disaster started to take shape.

Incidentally, it is important to remember that we actually had a budgetary surplus in 2001 of about £4bn, which was referred to at the time as "Brown's war chest". Hmm It is also equally important to recognise that this "war chest" was a result of the Labour commitment to Tory spending plans in their first term (they used PFI in their first term to get round this commitment because once they were in power, they realised there wasn't actually enough money to do all the things that they had said the Tories were too "evil" to do, like rebuild hospitals etc, so in order to prove the Tories were "evil" like they said, they PFI'd public utilities with publicly-funded operational costs). Thanks for that one, NewLabour.

It was clear to anyone that cared to look that by about 2004, tax receipts were artificially inflated by cheap credit and that Brown was not only spending to these levels but over and above -- and that when the credit spigot stopped, tax receipts would collapse and leave us with a significant deficit that we would not have the taxation capacity to deal with. That actually what Brown was actually doing was a kind of anti-Keynesianism under the mistaken belief that you could spend over receipts both during a boom AND a recession.

Yes, Brown was seemingly under the impression that the "boom" between 2001 and 2007 was "real economic growth" and that, at some point, he could stop his increases in spend and GDP would still continue to grow and thus eventually render his overspend into underspend and the country would find it had a surplus again, which it could then use to begin to pay down debt. He really believed in this idea there was a "new economic paradigm" that somehow delivered exponential economic growth, despite the fact that we were still seeing significant levels of un-employment, particularly amongst the young, and debt levels were rising significantly.

In short, Brown drank the kool-aid provided by the "Masters of the Universe", the very same Masters that have destroyed Greece, because he couldn't and/or wouldn't read the economic situation properly, nor engage his brain or common-sense. When the Queen asked why no-one saw the problem coming, well, they did. They banged on and on about it -- even the damn Communist Party of Great Britain wrote about it.

So, of course, when the spigot did stop in 2007, which was inevitable, tax receipts collapsed, which they were always going to, and left us with an enormous operational deficit of around £200bn, which was about 33 times the annual cost of the police service. This deficit, of course, also included the £48bn-ish annual interest payments we were also forking out for to cover the interest on the national debt, which was, incidentally, around twice the annual cost of housing benefit.

So yes, the "recession" was "global" in a sense, but it was damn obvious that it was going to happen at some point and Labour made the impact worse by overspending during a so-called "boom". Interestingly, had they kept to 2001 spending levels or thereabouts, there would have been no deficit post-2007 and we would have been sat on about a £80bn to £100bn operational surplus to soften the effects of the recessive environment.

And that would have been proper Keynesianism.

So, to answer your point, it is not that they are hellbent on bankrupting the country, it is that they just do not seem to understand that money has an innate cost mechanism of its own and that there are consequences to the creation of liabilities.

caroldecker · 21/04/2015 18:48

Also beware of unintended consequences. The SNP free university scheme has actually reduced the number of poor scots going to university, whilst in the UK the number has increased.

Jackieharris · 21/04/2015 20:07

Just because those 2 things have happened doesn't mean they're causal

LoganMountstuart · 21/04/2015 20:16

The SNP/Labour thing is definitely being exaggerated by the right-wing press. Luckily for the Tories it taps right into the heart of many voters' fears and will probably do Labour a lot of harm. I don't believe Nicola Sturgeon is actually particularly popular amongst English voters - again, it's just something that has come up in the press because she has obviously got something about her and did well on the telly debates.

Mind you, so is the UKIP/Conservative possibility. Nigel Farage gets way too much air-time compared to how plausible it is that UKIP will get anything more than a few seats at most.

I don't pay any attention to polls - you can get a poll to say anything you want it to say and they often get it wrong (e.g. 1992). Also things can change in a week.

Micksy · 21/04/2015 20:33

The economy is a complex mathematical system like the weather. No one fully understands it and no one can convincingly predict it. With hindsight, sometimes it is possible to produce a sensible sounding explanation of events. There is no consensus between leading experts.
Political parties throw blame at each other but generally operate entirely in the dark, pushing their own particular dogma, ends or blatant self interest.
Personally, I would just like to live in a country where people with disabilities are not driven to suicide by cuts whilst wealth concentrates more and more in the hands of fewer and fewer people. I would vote SNP if they ran south of the border.

caroldecker · 21/04/2015 20:55

Jackie It is causual - Scottish universities over-run with EU students getting a free education, pushing our poor locals.

caroldecker · 21/04/2015 20:56

out not our

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