Mother-Daughter Relationships

[tiggerkid]

Hi everyone,

I am not sure if this is the right place for this post but I didn't know where else to post it, so thought would try here.

The post isn't about me being a parent but more about me being an adult daughter, who doesn't get on with her mother and doesn't know what to do about it.

For as long as I remember myself being in the company of my mother has never been an easy thing. My mother is a very overbearing, extremely bossy and critical individual, who is never happy with anything you or anyone else around her does. She has always been criticising me, my sister and my dad for literally everything we do. If you are in my mother's house, you can't put your foot right. Nobody can. There isn't a person in the world that she is happy with.

She has always been like that and she is one of those people, who even manage to criticise random people in the shops, TV personalities, people they meey for the first time etc.

When I eventually moved out of her house, I think it was the best thing that ever happened to me because I could finally be my own person.

So here is my dilemma: 2 years ago, my dad passed away and my mother immediately stated her intention to move in with me and my family. You can imagine how I feel about this but because I am the oldest of only 2 children and my sister doesn't get on with her at all, there kind of always has been this expectation that she will eventually live with me and I will look after her. However, this "eventually", to me, meant when she is old and helpless and basically in need of looking after rather than when she feels like it.

Before anyone judges me for being a horrible daughter, I would like to make it clear that at present my mother doesn't require any care. She is 67 years old but is of sound mind and is, thankfully, in good health. The issue we have is that she has no friends at all, so she is desperately lonely and isolated.

Just before Christmas 2013, I invited her to stay over for few weeks and those few weeks were a total nightmare for me, which reminded me exactly why I don't want to share the same house with her again. In the first few days, my mother practically took over my entire house. She gave me no privacy with DH up until the moment we went to bed. She'd literally hang out with us from the moment we wake up until the moment we go to bed. As soon as my DH would step through the door after work, she would literally sit with us until it's time to sleep again.

Every time we wanted to go shopping or anywhere else, she would absolutely expect to come with us. I never said anything although I did try to drop a hint once by setting up TV in her bedroom in hope that she would get the message and at least for a couple of hours per day give us some space. Nothing of the kind happened. She ignored the TV in her bedroom and continued to hang out with us.

Eventually, we had a massive argument (I don't want to go into details here to keep this saga shorter!) and she called me a horrible daughter, packed her bags and demanded that we take her home.

Things have been pretty strained ever since but, nonetheless, I continued to call her on a regular basis. At one point, I told her though that this living under the same roof idea isn't going to happen and the best option for us is to sell her house and buy one near me, so we could see her regularly without living together. She wasn't happy with that! In fact, she was absolutely mad. She told me I betrayed her by setting the expectation she'd live with me in her old age and now trying to put her in a separate house in a place she isn't familiar with! We didn't talk for a while after that because I stood my ground but, in August 14, I sent her a birthday present. Naturally, she wasn't happy with it and told me it would probably be easier for everyone if I just gave her some money. Christmas 14, I didn't bother buying anything and sent her some money instead. Guess what? She managed to start an argument with me even then. She said I should've consulted her before I transferred the money, so she could schedule her time to go to the bank! I couldn't listen to her nonsense, so the argument ended in tears for me again, and I've not called her since.

I did, however, write her an email shortly after where I tried to tell her how she makes me feel. She immediately replied and her reply was that I was a horrible and obnoxious daughter, who is disrespectful and rude. In that email, she told me that she isn't going to forget the way I treated her, the fact that I refuse to live in the same house with her and my betrayal until her dying day.

I've not called her or wrote to her ever since. In January this year, she went to visit my sister. Despite not getting on with her, my sister invited her to stay over for few weeks to make sure she wasn't lonely. The relative peace only lasted for about a week before they also had a massive argument. The argument started, once again, because of my mother's constant complaints about me, our relatives and just about everything else in the world. My sister can't stand that and she is a lot more outspoken than me, so she told my mother everything she thinks about her.

My mother is a bit more scared of my sister's temper, so she bit her lip and stayed there until almost end of February. However they continued to argue. Whenever my sister would offer to take her somewhere for dinner, my mother would start whining that she doesn't like going out all the time. Once my sister wanted to take her out for some facials etc, my mother said no. When my sister would cook, my mother would say she isn't hungry only to ask for food half an hour later, when everyone else has eaten and my sister tidied the kitchen. Whatever my sister would suggest to her to occupy her free time, my mother would say no. My sister lives in the US, so I would like to make it clear that there is a lot my mother hasn't seen there, so in my mind it's not reasonable to behave this way when it was also the first time she visited my sister in the US since she got married there.

Eventually, they also had a massive falling out and my mother parted with my sister on bad terms telling her we are both ungrateful and she'll always remember how I betrayed her and how my sister is so nasty to her.

I would like to mention here that my sister paid for my mother's entire visit to the US (flights, food, shopping, all entertainment etc). My mother never had to spend a penny there. It was the same when she stayed with me. Neither of us received a word of gratitude. Only vile criticism and nastiness.

Before I end my story, I would like to say that my mother quite often makes references to her challenging relationship with my dad (they were quite different: my dad liked people and liked hanging out with them, doing things for others etc and my mother just liked doing her own thing, so they didn't really get on) and she often says how we owe her loving care to make up for all the years of misery that she had to endure while living with my dad. What she does, however, forget and doesn't want to mention is what it was like for me and my sister to live with 2 parents, who were always at each other's throats. My mother also beat us both, especially me, until I was pretty much a teenager. When she beat me, she was merciless, but I remember hating her nagging a lot more than the beating. I often prayed that she would beat me rather than say all those vile nasty things she was so fond of saying to everyone.

My mother doesn't seem to remember any of this. She kind of erased it from her memory as if it never happened. So, during her argument with my mother, my sister told her that tender loving relationships are usually a 2-way street and if you want to have those, you need to learn to give love to others. She also told her that love is something that people earn and have to work at and you can't force it. My mother said that if we were reasonable adults, instead of childish, petulant, selfish daughters, who never grew up, we would understand her.

Well, let me tell you, maybe I am a nasty daughter but I really don't understand her. At this point, I am not really sure I want to understand her either. I am literally at the end of my tether. I've not called her for almost 4 months now because I am just not ready for another battle with her. Whenever I call her, as soon as she hears my voice, she stays silent for about 5 minutes before eventually saying, "So, you finally call? What do you expect to hear? Are you just calling to see if I am still alive. Well, I still am. What else would you like to know?".

I am sure everyone can imagine how much I feel like talking to her after that opening statement but I usually made an effort every single time. It's just these last few months I've been completely feeling drained of all energy even at the thought of talking to her. I am really not ready to face her again. However I feel so guilty about not calling her when she is on her own that I can't sleep and not a day goes by when I don't feel like I am a terrible daughter and that she is right.

However the fundamental issue is that she wants to move in with me and unless I agree, there will be no reasonable conversation about anything. And I can't agree to that because she will ruin my life, which I can't allow her to do. She holds me responsible for her happiness but trust me if you knew my mother, you would know that nobody in the world can make her happy.

I am sorry for the long post. I don't even know what I am hoping to hear or what my question is. All my friends tell me that I would be mad to allow my mother to move in with me. Maybe I am here to clear my conscience or maybe just to be heard... I don't know. I feel so truly lost but I really don't feel like calling her or writing to her. The only two things I feel are 1) my desire not to interact with her ever again and 2) feeling guilty for feeling no desire to interact with the woman who gave birth to me.

What would you do?

OP my mother is like yours. Im 51 now and distanced from her. I spent too long being subject to her bad moods, criticisms, being disgruntled at any and everything in life..God forbid my life or relationships should be good, she'd almost be spitting blood with envy. My dad bailed out years ago and is now happily in another relationship which isn't a battleground

I do think about my mother sometimes. & now that she is 73 I wonder how I will feel when she dies. But - I can't go back to having her around my life. She's caused so much distress for years on end, which I can hardly bear thinking about, and was starting bitchy comments towards my DDs too, as well as favouring one above the other with her troublemaking self.

Sometimes you are better off without a toxic mother in your life..although I guess a part of you wishes they were a good mother to you. What can you do but live your life and find and celebrate whatever and whoever makes you happy. When all said and done Im better off without my mother in my life. & you will be, too.

You are not in the wrong. You have done nothing wrong.

I have no contact with my mother and it is the best thing that I have ever done for myself and my family. I won't pretend that it hasn't been hard; the guilt has been terrible but I keep telling myself that I was not the toxic one, I was not the one who dished out verbal abuse, I was not the one who drove a child to an eating disorder, I was not the one who could never be trusted, I was not the one who lied, who denied the past because the truth was too uncomfortable.

Your mother will never change so you have to decide to what extent you can have her in your life without being driven mad. Certainly I don't think that you should let her live with you. Whether you can cope with the odd visit or phonecall is for you to say. Leave the guilt behind though, you owe her nothing.

Just thinking on this more..I hate the way some people will appropriate the right to metaphorically sit on your back like a leech, by virtue of being related to you, and inflict misery upon you - draining your will to live. Don't ever let your mother move in with you OP. She will move in and then belittle and undermine you daily, spreading negativity through your life and home, and then take pleasure in watching you crumble. Its what toxics do.

Wow op, you are strong. You feel guilty because you are a kind and caring person. Your guilt is probably mixed with grieving.. grieving for the mother daughter relationship you never had and never will have.

Do not let her live with you, ever. You do not deserve that hardship. You will probably continue to feel guilty for the rest of her life and probably long after she is gone. If you could find a way to remind yourself daily about why you had to keep her out of your house, it might help alleviate the guilt when it arises.

Victoria Secunda has a wonderful book about difficult mothers, When You and Your Mother Can't be Friends.

Best wishes op.

I get on well with my DC and see quite a lot of them.

My DD has always said that she'd look after me if I'm ever on my own.

That's lovely, but there's no way in hell I'd ever live with her as it would be far too intrusive on her family life and we'll kill each other within a month!

Your mother is hideous. I take it she has no friends?

This thread has really hit a raw nerve with me op .. for you.

I know in real life you meet very few people who admit to having a strained relationship with their mother but I totally understand. Mine is also overbearing, hideously critical and rude, spiteful tongue, pulls a 'sickie' at any special event of mine (hen, graduation etc)

I cannot bear it but put up with it. Yesterday it was my hair, the fact I have only visited twice this week and yet have a one year old and 5 month old. Its all about her.

I have moved far enough away that I have space. She doesn't know I have a landline as I would get shit everyday and she would abuse the free calls.

I have a lovely dad though.. sorry you lost your father. I understand the feeling of responsibility on your shoulders if she is genuinely on her own. She has shit in her own bed though.. not once but several times. you cannot change people like this.

Thank you, everyone, for your kind words and support. I am so relieved not to hear that it is my duty to look after my mother etc, which is what she always tells me and my sister. During her stay with my sister, she said to her that she didn't recall us being so outspoken when we were living under her roof and were fully dependent on her. After that, my sister told me that she thought our mother is being bitter and resentful because she can no longer control us like she did when we were little. I used to defend my mother in the past but I no longer feel that I can.

She ruined my relationship with my dad by virtue of the fact that she always expected me to side with her in all their arguments, which I did when I was a teenager and even recently as an adult just to keep peace with her. When my dad complained to me about her, I used to tell him that I don't want to get involved in their battles. In reality, I was really afraid of my mothers hysterics and demented rage that she would inevitably unleash on all of us, if she sensed any lack of support. This is something I deeply regret and feel devastated about. In the last few years of his life, my dad didn't go out much because he wasn't well and I think all that he really wanted was a shoulder to cry on and, frankly, this is where I feel like a cr*p daughter for not offering it to him just to keep peace with her.

My sister has always been headstrong and outspoken, so she refused to side with my mother and not talk to my dad during their arguments even when she was younger. My dad adored my sister and, I suspect, felt much more resentful towards me even though he tried not to show it. My mother was mad at my sister for not doing the same as I did, i.e. supporting her 300% in all those arguments and my sister grew up pretty much ignored by her. As such our household was kind of always divided into 2 camps: my mother and I and my dad and my sister. My sister never had a relationship with my mother and I never had a relationship with either my sister or my dad.

Only now do I realise that actually I don't have much of a relationship with my mother either, so where my sister has some fond memories of at least having some warmth from my dad, I don't have any such thing at all.

Until recently, both my sister and I have tried to maintain as civilised a relationship with my mother as we can. We sent her birthday presents, Christmas presents, visited and called her on a regular basis. I am not joking you when I tell you that I used to call my mother literally every day at one point just to be sure she has someone to talk to. My mother, on the other hand, never called us on our birthdays, never sent any gifts or any such thing. In fact, she never calls us at all. She expects us to do all the calling. This is why we've not spoken for 4 months. I've not called and I know she will not call.

In our last conversation, she blamed me for being a sh*t mother to my sister. She said that she invested so much time and effort in me that she hardly had any time for my sister, especially with a husband like hers. She told me that, therefore, while she's never expected anything from my sister, my betrayal is something that she will never forgive or forget. I am not entirely sure what sort of thing she understands by "time and effort" invested in me but it's not the same as my understanding of time and effort. She never had any birthday parties for either me or my sister, we never did anything for fun. So much so that even now as an adult I don't find any enjoyment in any parties or what other, more normal people, consider to be fun. I remember hating going to the stupid summer camps she used to sign me up for as a child every summer for at least a month. I told her on many occasions how much I hated them, yet I remember going there every single summer until it was no longer possible! She used to beat me when she helped me with homework or if I did something that was naughty in her eyes (and naughty in her eyes is a 5-year old coming back home in a soiled dress!) but now she tells me I am lucky that I didn't have an alcoholic, drug addict or a whore for a mother (I frankly wish she would drink sometimes just to lighten up!). She used to criticise everything I did until she completely ruined my confidence in myself. You won't believe this but I even managed to get criticism for my inability to have a 2nd child. According to my mother, I can't get pregnant because I put on weight after I had my son, which I have no willpower to lose. Yes, I did put on weight but let me just say for the record here that I weigh 9 stones, not 50!

When my mother was staying with me, I once went out with my ex-colleague, who is also my friend and with whom I catch up regularly. My mother said I was shameless to go gallivanting around with another man when my husband is at home! Yes, OK, my friend is a man but c'mon, seriously? Which century do we live in?

I am sure by now you can see why so few people maintain contact with my mother. Some of my dad's friends certainly were only too keen to delete her from their Skype contacts after my dad passed away. She may be surprised by that but let me tell you whenever my dad's friends and acquaintances gathered to remember my dad, all those occasions were spoilt by my mother's ranting about how tough it was for her to live with him. She even did that at his wake! I hated those gatherings too.

I am so grateful to all of you for listening and for taking my side. It is particularly reassuring to know that I am not mad, when people, who don't really know me or my mother, say that I am not.

I will definitely visit the suggested threads, websites and books as it is only now that I truly see that I am basically dysfunctional. Until recently I used to blame myself for everything and it's only my most recent argument with my mother that has suddenly made me realise that I've just completely run out of energy to blame myself for anything anymore! And it is the first time in my life that I've not spoken to her this long and the first time in my life when I actually feel that I'd choose to live with guilt than put up with her ways again. I don't know how this will resolve itself but I certainly don't think I should call her until I am ready, if such a moment will ever come.

Sadly, the only person, who thinks I need to continue making effort and feel sorry for my mother is my best friend. She is shocked by all this and understands me but still says I need to have compassion for my mother. This really does sadden me as nobody else seems to feel the same way.

'She is shocked by all this and understands me but still says I need to have compassion for my mother. '

Well she's just flat out wrong! And that's not a very helpful thing for a friend to say - she clearly doesn't get it at all. You owe your mother nothing - she sounds utterly demented, totally unreasonable, highly abusive and seriously toxic. It's a special kind of loneliness, having a parent like this. It sometimes seems like no-one else gets it. As you can see, sadly, lots of us do I'm glad it was helpful to share on here.

Ignore what your friend says. People who are brought up by decent parents never understand. I rarely talk about my situation because most people cannot grasp how it is to be torn apart every day by the person who is supposed to love you the most.
It seems your sister will support you through this because she can see how awful your mother is too. One of the worst things about going NC with an abusive family memeber is that you risk losing the rest of your family but I don't think that will be an issue with you and your sister. It is quite ususal to have a fractured relationship with a sibling when you've suffered a toxic parent though becasue they like to divide and conquer - often one will be the golden child and the other will be the scapegoat.

It is hard for many people to understand just how awful a toxic parent is. All you can do is take the action that gives you most peace of mind.

When these types are challenged at long last, they tend to lash out as they realise their grip is weakening. In the early days of me challenging my relationship, I was summoned over 200 miles away to find out that the great revelations that would be revealed were actually the same old grievances that I'd gone through umpteen times. DH got the blame for my rebellion because of course it couldn't have been my idea to break away. I drifted into a low contact relationship by stretching out the phone calls as my sense of guilt wore out. Mine has learned to behave a bit, but she wasn't as awful as yours to begin with.

Lottapianos and BadgersNadgers, you are probably right because the worst thing my friend can tell me about her mum is how she once said something about her teacher, the teacher heard what she said from someone else and her attitude towards my friend completely changed after that! If only this or something similar was the worst thing I could say about my mother, I wouldn't be writing anything here :)

you poor thing.

its really sad when peoples own behaviour stops them.

have you told her what it is that upsets you - apologies if been mentioned.

its just it may help if she is that deserpate.

Ignore what your friend says. People who are brought up by decent parents never understand. I rarely talk about my situation because most people cannot grasp how it is to be torn apart every day by the person who is supposed to love you the most

YY and also some people who are utterly lovely can be narrow minded and very very naive.

They really do not know what difficult, truly difficult people are like.

It can be very hard for someone who has had a lovely mum to understand quite how bad it is to have a mum like yours. There's a huge tendency to try to normalise quite mad behaviour.

What would happen if your sister rang your mum and said, "Spoken to OP lately?" When your mum answers, obviously, in the negative, what would happen if your sister said, "Well, the phone works both ways, you know!"

What would happen if your sister told your mum that she'd really upset you and that you were not going to phone first?

By the way, did your mother have her mother to live with her, when her mum was elderly?

As far as living with her, can't you just say that your DH doesn't want to do that? What's her attitude towards him?

ImperialBlether, my mother's visit to my sister ended in a huge argument and when my sister duly called her on her return home to check if she got home ok, my mother just slammed the phone down. That was in February. Since then, my sister's had no desire to talk to her at all and, hence, hasn't called her either. My sister has a much more explosive personality than me (in some ways, she kind of takes after my mother although she is much more reasonable in comparison!), so she told my mother many times that everything is a two-way street. Whenever my mother complained of loneliness, my sister advised her to pick up the phone and call other people, yet my mother continues whining that nobody calls her. She constantly blames her nieces, nephews for not calling her to wish her a happy birthday or a happy new year, for example, but when my sister asks her if she ever called them to do the same, there is either silence or a change of topic.

I have written to my mother myself to tell her how I felt but she unleashed a bucket of demented rage and abuse on me and blamed me for everything again, which is why I've not been in contact with her since December.

If I tell her my DH doesn't want to live with her, she will say that I influenced his feelings and attitude towards her. She keeps saying that it is clear to her that my husband listens to me and does as I ask. She somehow projects her relationship with my dad onto me and thinks that my husband is too afraid of arguments with me to speak up, which couldn't be further from the truth. We discuss everything and always consider each other's opinions and feelings (unlike my mother did with my dad!). My husband has absolutely no desire to live with her. After she packed her bags and left our house last time, he thought she was absolutely mental and unreasonable and said to me that there is no way that he would ever consider living with her. Certainly not when she has so much energy to behave the way she does.

Just before my dad died, you won't believe but she started arguing with my sister about dinner. My sister was helping her prepare dinner and somehow my mother thought my sister wasn't doing it right. My sister doesn't like being told what to do, so she told her that it didn't matter if she was doing it right or not, the thing that mattered was that she was helping. OMG, my mother just went absolutely crazy and started screaming her head off and eventually kicked us both out of her house and said if we are going to be like this, we should never return! I would like you to note that we aren't teenagers. We have our own children now and our mother still feels it's entirely normal to kick two adult daughters out of her house because one of them didn't follow her cooking instructions!

After that, we couldn't even call home because every time we tried, she would slam the phone down, so we couldn't even speak to our dad and a month later he passed away. You can imagine how I feel about the fact that that grand scandal was the last ever time I saw my dad alive.

If you think that the situation was just about raised voices, that's not quite the picture. During that argument, my mother was screaming hysterically, threatening us both with suicide and telling us to take our dad away to live with us because she was fed up with everything.

Eventually we were forced to speak when she told us dad passed away. Shortly after she still blamed me for not stopping my sister from talking back to her!

Although I am used to this kind of behaviour, for some reason, this incident really opened my eyes because since that day I never saw my mother in the same light again. It's only then that for the first time I fully realised the horror of what we've been living with and although I can imagine it wasn't easy for her to live with my dad, who lived his life for other people rather than his family, I honestly think it was much harder for him to live with her.

It is not possible to have a decent conversation with my mother. Everything she perceives as criticism towards her results in a psychotic rage, where you get blamed for everything. The only difference between my childhood and now is that now she can no longer hit me. That's all. Otherwise, she's not changed. Sometimes I wonder if she is altogether with it to be honest because I can't see how any normal individual can behave the way she does!

I really didn't disbelieve what you were saying before - it sounded absolutely horrific. I just wondered what on earth she could say in answer to a question from someone.

Look, she's 67. She could go on for another twenty years, easily. I would let the relationship go. You will never have a normal relationship with her because she isn't that kind of woman - she won't have a normal relationship with anyone. I bet if you traced back her life, you'd find person after person that she'd fallen out with. She thinks she can bully you because you are still desperately seeking a normal relationship with her. You can't have that - it's impossible.

So, you could spend twenty years being driven mad by her - you will dissect everything she says and does (I know what that feels like) - or you could spend those years mentally wishing her well but steering clear of her.

In a way you're at a lucky point - she won't pick up the phone to speak to you. I daresay the next time she does it will be with a 'trip to A&E' - designed to make you panic and not blame her. It wouldn't surprise me if a nurse was to make the phone call. She'll be in with 'holding her breath in a tantrum' syndrome, which at her age they will have to investigate in case it's a heart attack. Take that phone call with a pinch of salt; it will be done to drag you back into her field force.

I really feel for you. Having a mother who's there for us should be everyone's birthright. I would develop stronger links with your sister and with your husband and get what you need from them, instead.

Not much advice to give but I believe that you can love somebody without actually liking them as a person. You are not a horrible person, she sounds emotionally taxing to an extreme.

Get the book called Will I ever be good enough. It saved me from my mother who is very similar. Do not have her live with you. She is a bad mother and you have probably been trying to please her your whole life. Mothers are meant to be nurturing not critical, giving not taking from their children, loving not mean, empathetic not using your emotions to get one up on you, kind not selfish , honest not manipulative. Try the stately homes thread. I have found it really supportive.

You've had a very difficult upbringing with a severely unpleasant and dysfunctional woman. Please forgive yourself for any errors of judgment or missteps you feel you've made.

Your best friend is right in one sense-try to have some compassion for your mother (eventually at least, when you've gained some perspective). I think that will be more healthy for you in the long run than bearing a grudge. But be compassionate from a distance. Your mother remains abusive and there is absolutely no good reason why you should give her more opportunities to abuse you.

I ought to add, I went nc with both my parents nearly two years ago. I haven't missed them at all. I have missed the idea of what parents are meant to be, but I would never try to have a relationship with them. I look back and I am surprised I survived.