Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think that if Labour increase paternity pay to £260pwk they need to increase maternity pay to the same amount?

38 replies

Jackieharris · 19/04/2015 11:46

I don't mean this as a general kick at labour but it strikes me as un- thought out and inequitous that under their proposal men on paternity pay will get £260pwk for 4 weeks whilst the woman is on maternity pay of £140?

I know some/most? New mums get smp which is usually higher than the basic maternity allowance of £140pwk but for those who do only get the basic amount isn't it a bit unfair that their partners will be entitled to £120pwk more just because they are men?

I am in support of more paternity leave and pay so think that in principal it's a good idea I just think whoever has come up with the detail hasn't noticed this anomaly.

It raises the wider (dare I say it, feminist?) question about why it appears that political parties think they need to offer men bigger 'bribes' to take parental leave the women. Of course this does overlap with the wider issues of the gender pay gap.

OP posts:
PtolemysNeedle · 19/04/2015 11:52

I haven't seen the proposal so can't comment with much accuracy, but in don't think it's unfair because women are entitled to maternity allowance for a lot more weeks than men would be entitled to paternity allowance.

I don't think it's helpful to make it a men versus women thing, it's about helping families, not just men or women. Men aren't getting more simply because they are men, but because they are supposed to be the ones out earning the money when their partner has just had a baby.

thatstoast · 19/04/2015 11:56

It doesn't really hold up to scrutiny when you consider new laws regarding shared parental leave. I think there should be no difference between pay for men and women while they're on parental leave.

Lottiedoubtie · 19/04/2015 11:58

Men aren't getting more simply because they are men, but because they are supposed to be the ones out earning the money when their partner has just had a baby.

eh? what about the women who pre-pregancy earn more than the men? what about the women forced back to work earlier due to the need to earn more than £140 a week. what about the women who don't have partners?

maternity and paternity benefits should be equal.

(disclaimer: haven't read the proposed policy either)

Original poster
Jackieharris · 19/04/2015 12:02

Here's a link to the proposal

www.labour.org.uk/blog/entry/labours-manifesto-for-women

It's kind of ironic that this increase in money men will be entitled to is part of Labour's manifesto for women. Hmm

OP posts:
zeezeek · 19/04/2015 12:09

Off the topic a bit, but the real feminist issue is that all parties still think that they have to have a "woman's manifesto" which presumably consists of childcare issues and other family issues instead of treating women as intelligent people in their own right who may well have other issues they are interested in, and giving the message that family issues and childcare are not the concern of men.

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 19/04/2015 12:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PtolemysNeedle · 19/04/2015 12:23

Women who pre pregnancy earn more than the man aren't relevant to this. They aren't earning while they're claiming maternity allowance, and quite often they'll be getting far made than MA through their employer anyway.

guinnessguzzler · 19/04/2015 12:37

I think if doubling paternity pay they should also look to increase SMP, which is the comparable benefit here, not MA.

In terms of doubling paternity leave time, I don't fully understand the reason for this given the new shared parental leave system.

Original poster
Jackieharris · 19/04/2015 12:44

zeezeek yes I see both sides of this. Why should we need a 'women's manifesto? (I don't think all parties do though?) it seems that the alternatives are either these issues just don't get into manifestos at all or men start demanding more in terms of paternity leave/pay etc themselves. Are either of these going to happen?

need but couldn't mat leave be paid at the same rate for the same length of times as pat leave?

ptolemy do most women get more than smp? Is there an official stat on that?

OP posts:
tethersend · 19/04/2015 12:52

Really good points raised.

Why couldn't the weekly SMP rate for at least the first four weeks match the rate of paternity pay?

And as for it being a women's issue Hmm

HungryHorace · 19/04/2015 12:54

The government pays for SMP not the employer (though larger companies pay a small percentage of it). Employers claim it back. So any rise wouldnt affect small companies.

trilbydoll · 19/04/2015 13:12

Properly small companies claim back 108% of SMP/SPP so the higher the rate, the better for them.

My colleague couldn't take paternity leave, they couldn't afford the loss of earnings, he took a week's holiday instead. So, it makes sense to encourage men to take a decent chunk of leave to start with, to try and avoid everything baby related becoming the woman's job.

I don't really see why SMP couldn't be the same level for 4 weeks though to match, that would be the logical policy.

PervyMuskrat · 19/04/2015 13:18

According to the TUC website, only 1 in 4 women get additional maternity pay on top of SMP, which tallies with my experience of working with SMEs

TUC link

NeedAScarfForMyGiraffe · 19/04/2015 13:18

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

nicknack9510 · 19/04/2015 13:27

I think that the reason that they haven't mentioned SMP is that the first 6 weeks are paid at 90% of your wage. So increasing SPP to 4 weeks at £240 would fall within that period that is already protected?

I do agree that SMP is far too low and the basic rate needs to be increase and I would also like to add that I have worked for 5 large multinational companies and only 1 offered an enhanced maternity package (and I understand that they removed that from the contracts after I left), so the impact of maternity leave on our household is massive, as I earn more than DP.

TedAndLola · 19/04/2015 13:33

Maternity and paternity rights should be completely equal so that no family is worst of for having a particular parent SAH.

When we have children I will take 18 weeks maternity leave, for which my company offers 70-90% of usual pay. When statutory pay kicks in I will go back to work and my husband will stay at home, since I am the biggest earner by far. We should get the same statutory amount whether it's me or him.

kent43 · 19/04/2015 13:41

I think its a great idea. My dh is a high earner and could mot justifytaking paternity leave due to the paltry amount. This proposal would have helped us. It would not be fill compensation but it would be better. Remember most women get 90% of their salary for 6 weeks I believe.

SpiceAddict · 19/04/2015 13:46

Just took this off the gov.uk site, so look like most women would get more anyway:

Statutory Maternity Pay (SMP) is paid for up to 39 weeks. You get:

90% of your average weekly earnings (before tax) for the first 6 weeks
£139.58 or 90% of your average weekly earnings (whichever is lower) for the next 33 weeks
SMP is paid in the same way as your wages (eg monthly or weekly). Tax and National Insurance will be deducted.

crazykat · 19/04/2015 13:48

I don't see a problem. Women can take maternity leave for far longer.

Many men can't afford to take paternity leave. My dh had to take a weeks annual leave when I had our youngest as we couldn't afford to only have £120 paternity pay for two weeks.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 19/04/2015 13:54

What gets ne about partenity leave not everyone has a dh or dp behind them. Do they. I think the policy is discriminatory to single parents tbh. And before that crap gets spouted out. Well people choose to be single parents well actually no they don't. A women doesn't choose to be abused but she makes the brave choice to get out. A women doesn't choose to be widowed,
now I may have got this totally wrong though. Perhaps other members are allowed to take obviously paid leave to offer support.
Because like I said. Not everyone is a 2.4 happy family

Original poster
Jackieharris · 19/04/2015 14:01

Nicknack-but there are women who only get MA of £140pwk from the start.

(I try to find a stat on this)

For them this new policy idea is very unfair.

Iliveialighthouse- oh yes as a sp in the past I do find almost all social policy to be discriminatory against single parents. Why can't the policy be that if there is no one to take the paternity pay a single parent can have the equivalent amount added to their maternity pay?

OP posts:
pressone · 19/04/2015 14:02

In my business paternity leave can be taken by the partner of the Mother. That partner need not be male. Adoption leave is available to both (if there are two) or either of the adoptive parents, regardless of the combination of genders. Is this the same for SPP?

PtolemysNeedle · 19/04/2015 14:04

If there isn't a DH or a DP around, then there isn't a parent to give paternity pay too. It's not discrimination.

Original poster
Jackieharris · 19/04/2015 14:05

There were just short of 20,000 women claiming maternity allowance between June & August 2014.

www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/403569/ma-quarterly-aug-2014.xls

OP posts:
lucycant · 19/04/2015 14:05

I agree OP. Also if a woman is a single mother, then she won't benefit from it.
Of course with same sex couples a woman may benefit from this, but it is in the main men who will get this enhanced amount.