to not know what to do with this child???

[MadBannersAndCopPorn]

Dd1 is 3 in June. She's been in bottom bunk bed for 6 months in the room with her little sister 16m. I am ready to drop baby no3 at any time.

Dd1 goes to bed but after about 15mins is up asking for a drink. I give her literally a sip of water then back to bed.
She's up again asking for a cuddle. Quick 2 sec cuddle, back to bed.
She's up asking for a wee, sits on loo, nothing comes out, back to bed
She's up with a snotty nose
She's woken her sister up calling out for us
She's wet the bed

You get the picture.

Wtf do I do?
She has a stair gate on her bedroom door (so they cant escape whilst im cleaning) which I leave open at night. She can climb it, so no point shutting it.

I keep thinking of the poster not long ago who said they don't know why people keep having more kids when they can't control the ones theyve got- I feel that's me ATM.

I don't want to make bedtime a horrible, shouty time... Please help

We found it helpful to preempt the daftness by staying for a couple of minutes after lights out,then saying mummy was just going to empty the dishwasher/let the dog out/have a wee/put the dinner on etc etc. We then popped back in a few minutes, stayed for a wee while then had another reason to go, then left it a bit longer, and so on.
I was like you and didn't want them to go to bed sad, but really couldn't hack the ongoing silliness at bedtime!

That's exactly it, I'm not a particularly softly, softly person with behaviour etc. But just the thought of getting really cross and leaving her in a dark room upset just feels wrong.
I know from experience that staying with her in her room would be hell, shed be so excited!

I'm going to try and give her a special bedtime and story and maybe print up some cards with pictures on for a checklist.

I need to sort the routine out, its just teeth, story, bed ATM. It works fine for dd2 but maybe dd1 needs a bit more

my dd 2.5yrs previously brilliant sleeper became horrendous after ds's arrival, wouldn't go to bed, up at all hours and wouldn't settle back again, I'm not proud of how I dealt with it whilst sleep deprived. rapid return would only create a huge tantrum and falling asleep from exhaustion and heaving sobs. we had more success with sticker charts, she got a sticker for going to bed with no fuss and sleeping all night, she got a toy for 7 stickers. I like the golden tickets idea, don't think she'd have got it 2.5, but you may have more luck with 3yo

She only upset because she isn't getting her own way. Keep returning her to bed. Perhaps star chart for every night she stays in bed. Definitely put them to bed seperatly then you can read older one her own special story while cuddled on your bed ect.

Re:homebirth, you will be fine. The world would not be so populated if the presence of an older sibling automatically hindered a baby's arrival. My (then 24mth old) DS slept through pretty much all of my established labour (he was waking lots of times in the night at that stage but for some reason didn't that night!), we called his friend's parents to pick him up and his sister was born 30mins later. If she wakes, your partner can deal with that can't he/she?
When my son wants more snuggles in bed, I generally oblige - in a few years he will probably be telling me he hates me whilst glued to an electronic device, so I will try to profit for now even if I have a zillion other things I think I should be doing
You sound very tired OP, and it is hard as you are probably all lumpy and uncomfortable.

I am absolutely exhausted!

Part of me thinks she's trying to play me like a fiddle and the other part thinks she must want or need something. Over thinking everything as usual.

Good thing is, once we've had the half hour of madness she will usually stay in bed which makes me feel better about home birth. I'm not a home birth sort of person really but couldn't bear staying in hospital at least 24h after birth, surely they need to free up the beds???

I'll keep her up for special cuddles and story tomorrow and see if that helps. I actually feel I'll be more comfortable having given birth than at this stage of pregnancy, I've never felt so physically restricted in all my life, they say number 3 is a killer!!

My homebirth of DD was amazing and I hope yours will be too. DS was meant to be born at home (but wasn't for many reasons). I love that I can cuddle my DD in the spot where she was born and that our village is on her passport (I know, all the really important stuff...). Ultimately though, if you don't want a homebirth and want to take up a bed, you can choose to do so. We are lucky to have that choice.
Good luck tomorrow - let us know how it goes.

You can change your mind re the home birth at any time. You need to go with whatever feels safest for you.

And I agree with you, I only have 2 but late pregnancy witha toddleralready was the absolute low pointfor me. Toddler and newborn was easier.

It's important to remember that crying isn't always a child being sad, sometimes it's anger and/or defiance. Try and determine between the two. You need your sleep and rest too, I think you really need to clamp down on this- in your own words, she's playing you like a fiddle, and the more you reward the behaviour by going back in, the more she'll do it which will cause millions more problems when the new baby comes along...

The thing is, its not every night. Sometimes she goes down and sleeps all night, no problems... I don't know why she sometimes plays up and sometimes is fine??

Because she's not a machine.

Don't you have nights where it's harder for you to get to sleep? Plus she's 3 and starting to test boundaries and see what things are in her control. It's a development phase. On top of that you're bringing another competitor for your attention into the home. You're worried about how it's going to affect you - so is she.

She needs you to be a kind mummy now.

Three-Year Old Behavior Challenges

What is life like with a three-year-old? There is something quite magical about the three-year-old year, and often something quite difficult. I have had three mothers contact me recently about life with a three-year-old – its ups and its downs..
This is how the Gesell Institute Book “Your Three-Year-Old” characterizes some of the qualities of a three and three and a half year old”

Three Years:

Conforming, decreased physical aggressiveness, happy most of the time, friendly, pleasing
Loves new words
Likes to make a choice within realm of experience
Sure of himself
Tries to meet and understand social demands
Gets along well with mother
Helpful around house
Like to relive babyhood
Beginning of interest in babies, wants family to have one
If sibling is on the way, most really do not understand baby growing inside mother
Expresses affection readily
Desires to look at and touch adults, especially mother’s breasts
Father can take over in many situations, although Mother still favored parent
Child clings less at bedtime and may go to sleep better for father
Usually enthusiastic about other children but still immature in their social reactions
Children may be more comfortable with adults other than other children – they approach adults with requests for help or information
From page 55, “ Much of a child’s conversation with any adult is still self-initiated. He may respond to what grown-ups say to him, or sometimes, he may not.”
Temper tantrums decline

Three and a Half Years:

Turbulent, troubled period of disequilibrium, the simples event or occasion can elicit total rebellion
Strong and secure gross motor abilities may turn more into stumbling, falling, at this age
New- found verbal ability “I’ll cut you in pieces!” and lots of whining
Loves silly rhymes and rhyming words, sentence length is increasing, acquiring a large vocabulary
May refuse to do things a lot, or howl and scream, or say a lot of “I can’t” I won’t” kinds of things
Three and a half to four may be the height for the most “WHY?” “WHERE?” “WHAT?” kinds of questions
Demanding, bossy, turbulent, troubled but mainly due to emotional insecurity
Mother-child relationship difficult but may also cling to mother
May refuse to take part in daily routine – may do better with almost anyone than Mother
Inwardized, insecure, anxious
Determined and self willed; emotional extremes predominate
Emotional and physical insecurity
Anxious; lots of tensional outlets such as nose-picking, nail-biting, boys may be pulling almost constantly at their penises, etc; can see stuttering and tremors of muscles at times, visual strain
May not eat well, may still have problems with bed-wetting, may wake up in the middle of the night and walk around
Afraid of almost anything and everything
Beginning of prolonged play with dolls, house building, tricycle riding
Girls may propose to Daddy at this age
If your child tells you stories, they may have violent elements in them (page 102)

THINGS THREE-YEAR OLDS DO:

Wonder at things!
Play a lot
Invent stories to tell
Talk a lot and ask a lot of questions
Love their mommies and daddies and pets!
Get all those new words and new skills!

THINGS THAT MOTHERS SAY ARE DIFFICULT ABOUT THE THREE-YEAR-OLD:

Whining
Frequent changing of mind
Wanting to play games constantly with mother and wanting her attention all the time
The difficulty that comes with dressing, eating, going to bed, taking a nap
The asking of “Why?” over and over and over

OP my DH works similar hours and when DC2 was born, I had a 15yo neighbour come and help for an hour around bath time/bedtime. I have no idea whether this would be an option for you (both from a cost & suitable neighbours perspective) but I thought I'd mention it. I paid the 15yo £4 an hour. Obviously she never had sole charge of either DC but she could run the bath & put DC1 in it & then get her into PJs whilst I cluster fed DC2 or, if DC2 had fed, she'd cuddle DC2 (who only really slept on people for the first 6 mths) whilst I did bath & bed. It was brilliant.

My 3 & 5 yr olds share a room and go to bed at the same time. I make sure wee before bed, tucked in, cuddles etc etc. if any noise or anyone gets out of bed, I'll go and settle them again and tell them "no messing" and that it's their last warning. They know if I have to come back in again then there will be no TV the next day.

I've been doing this for 10 months now and they've only missed 2 days of TV! My kids are easy to bribe with TV!

Definitely stagger bed times - takes a bit longer but hopefully less faffing about in the long run.

Stay in the room until DD1 is drowsy and nearly asleep.

You need to get this cracked before DC3 comes along!

Sounds like she needs a bit of time with you after dd2 is in bed. Can you pop her in front of peppa pig or similar while you put dd2 to bed, then she has time alone with you (reading, playing etc) and a quick bedtime with her dad when he gets home at 8?
It's lovely that they share a room, but from dd1's perspective, she already shares her bedroom, her toys and her mummy with a younger sib, so what emotional and actual space will the new baby take from her? My 3yo was actually worse at the end of my pregnancy with dc2 than he was after the birth - although for both a few weeks beforehand and a few weeks afterwards, there was lots and lots of coming into our bed (waking the new baby and driving us nuts!). Looking back, he just wanted reassurance and while it was exhausting at the time, he quickly adjusted to baby's presence in his life.
You may be underestimating dd1's anxiety re new baby because she already has a sibling, but if you think about it she must have only been a baby herself when dd2 arrived. So now she understands what is going on, she may be all sorts of worried about the new arrival.

What works for our three yr old is to say I'll keep coming back to give me a cuddle if he's in bed. It doesn't work 100% but it definitely helps. I come back every five minutes.

Had similar a few years ago. Did a chart on the bedroom wall with the stages of going to Bed (photos)
1 PJ s on
2 teeth and face/ wee
3 cuddle and story
4 light dimmed
5 sleep (photo of him sleeping )

The gro clock helped so he knew he wasn't to get out of bed

At the bottom of the chart there were 4 spaces for happy faces - he started off with 2 happy faces, however if he got out of bed he lost a happy face.
If I checked and he was still in bed he got another happy face and if he stayed he might with out getting out if bed he got all 4 happy faces and a reward in the morning. After a while we were able to extend the rewards once he got the hang of it. It worked to help with the routine. We also used a similar pictorial chart for getting ready in the morning to get out the door on time. Really helps their co operation and understanding.
The first few nights we had to stay close and return or prompt to stay in bed if they wanted stars etc.

Wow! Thankyou for the responses! Seems as if mn are divided, which is confusing for me... I'm just about to put baby sis to bed so will let you know how staggered bedtime goes!

Yes, it needs cracking soon. I do believe she cries in anger and annoyance rather than being sad or scared. I'm going to try going in after shes settled down but before she's asleep- just hope I don't disturb baby- shooting myself in the foot! I'll go in, give her a kiss and tell her I'm going to check on her in 10 minutes, I will and then I'll tell her again. Hopefully shell be asleep, ha bloody ha! Luckily got dp here tonight to help tackle this

The list of developmental stage is interesting, I suppose they're all different and things won't apply to her and some will.

I'm happier now we've decided to have new baby downstairs rather than upstairs where the children will be ( if its in the day, someone will take them out)

Love the picture card idea but I already know I'll start it off and not follow through with it, I don't want to start something and confuse her with it and CBA with taking pics and printing/ laminating them.

Good luck OP - thinking about you! Do you have someone on night stand-by too, just in case you need to transfer?

Please don't have a home birth just because you don't want to be made to stay in for 24 hours after delivery. No one can make you stay at all. If you'd be more comfortable giving birth in hospital, do that, and then leave when you're ready, provided there's not a good medical reason for you to stay.

If you're keen on a home birth then please just ignore! It just read like it was last resort due to circumstances.

It wasn't so bad last night and I got a decent sleep, she cried fir a drink and I called to her up the stairs "you've already had one, I'll come and tuck you in in 5 minutes, get in bed" she did. I tucked her in and she was OK.

She's got ridiculously rude at the moment also so I do think its to do with the new arrival, she enjoyed coming down for a special story and cuddle, so will do in a month when I put her to bed.

The home birth was because I have pretty easy births, its my 3rd, easier to keep kids at home. I can have whoever I want there, on my own turf and I get to have my lovely midwife who has looked after me through all my pregnancies.
I would have had the baby in midwifery unit but they can't guarantee that I'll get in and I can't bear being in hospital for 24h, last birth I didn't get in the midwifery unit and ended up walking out of hospital with baby after being left for 6h. (We were already told all was fine)

My son (who's actually my DSD) was a devil for getting back up out of bed when I first moved in with his dad. DS was 5 then.

We eventually settled on
Toilet (which was downstairs)
Brush teeth and wash
Into PJs while I warmed up some milk for him
Drinking mug of milk while reading a story in bed together
Then book down and he laid down while I sang a song!

Obviously you've got to pick your song right. No good going with something bouncy like The Wheels on the Bus. My son especially loved ballad-type songs that told a story. He loved Whisky In the Jar!

The rapid return / hardline parenting techniques have never been my style no point trying my kids' wills are stronger than mine and I've found much more success with the gentler approach. Don't get me wrong, my kids get shouted at, but it's counterproductive, and giving them a little bit of what they want is more successful.

So, stories once in bed, followed by singing to them like pocket suggests - I would do requests but only 1 each and only calming songs! Frankly they would normally be asleep by then or pretty drowsy, but if it hadn't done the trick, then classic fm on the radio or a story cd - but just quiet enough that they would have to be settled down in order to listen in. It was pretty foolproof, and no matter how bad a day we might all have had (was a single mum for several years and lived with a plonker before that), bedtime was calm and reassuring.

Even now when they're much older, I still find that the more I put in, the more I get out. We'd got into a bad cycle of them coming back down, me roaring for them to go back to bed and them mucking around for ages. I started to read to them before bed again (although old enough to read to themselves) and also, would you believe it, on a bad day meditation, and they now stay on bed like a dream again - and for not much extra time and effort on my part. Meditation is a great tool for an overwrought small person - you can get some really simple kids CDs /downloads on the internet which you can just put on for them if you have to get on and can't sit up with them any longer!

We'd got into a bad cycle of them coming back down, me roaring for them to go back to bed and them mucking around for ages.

^Yup!

After a long day, all you want after lights out is freedom from your children. It's slightly chilling to hear that tiny voice 'muuuuummy' when you've just sat down or you think they're asleep!! I think I'm impatient to get them down sometimes as its so hard! She was OK tonight, did the drink routine and she went down- maybe my stress was rubbing off on her? Thankyou all for taking the time to answer, I feel more human now!
And thanks for nobody telling me off for being cross at her, were all only human!