to think this is not dealing with hitting?

[mikado1]

I am a bit today so need some perspective. 3yo ds has been a hitter these last few months and I am heartbroken/fed up with it. I pull him up on it every time, stay very close and prevent where possible, leave playgroup/playgrounds etc. Finally in last few weeks it has decreased and I can relax while out and about buthad nnoticed while (over-)analysing it that he sometimes does it like a defence even though he hasn't been hit-like if someone in his face he flinches and lashes out and I felt awful that he seemed kind of nervy.

He is in a minder's with three 5yos and I have seen them be very physical with one another and also with my ds-at a party one of them hit by ds on the back while he was facing the other way lost in play with a truck. Today at pickup I noticed one of them kicking out, poking and generally 'at' my ds and then pushed him. My ds then hit out. This all happened in seconds and I found it hard to say anything to 5yo when cm is in charge. I immediately told my ds off for hitting and cm just said 'Boys, stop'. She and I were right ndxt to them. Am I bu to think this is a useless attempt at dealing with it and she needed to speak to boys about what happened? I don't blame the 5yos (although I am a bit at the thought thatds might sstill be hitting at 5) bht I do think they need guidance and help to deal with situation without hurting and understand when to leave someone alone (ds had shook his head and whined when prodded).

I am genuinely concerned about this and really rely on cm.. what do you think?

Before anyone thinks I didn't stick up for my ds, I was moving towards them just before he hit out and had said 'Hey he doesn't like that' beforehand, fairly meekly I will admit as felt uncomfortable when cm in charge of the child.

I think it is almost always better to say something like 'boys stop' than try and untangle who did what to whom first tbh. If however a situation unfolds where one child is pushing/poking/hitting another then it is entirely reasonable to tell them firmly to stop it immediately. Next time you see it, step in with a sharp 'stop that'.

Your childminder is the problem

It depends a lot on what the discipline is like generally, and the tone of voice, and the child. I work in a school, and some children respond better to a short, sharp instruction like 'stop', and then follow up shortly after, as they may not be able to process complicated language while their emotions are high. I might also say 'stop' as a first warning, with consequences after 2 or 3 warnings (depending on severity). I might say 'stop' as a means of defusing the immediate situation (ie 2 children who have both got physical with each other) before you can get the full story of what has happened.

In other words, if all she did was tell them to stop, then no, that's not dealing with it. However, you saw a brief snapshot, she may have spoken to the boys after you had gone, she may have spoken to them previously and the 'stop' was a gentle reminder, she may have some other system in place that means the child knows that if they continue, there will be consequences.

All you can really do is talk to the cm about her discipline and behaviour policies, explain that you were concerned that your DS felt cornered into hitting another child, and ask how it can be avoided in future. You can't demand that she discipline another child, only ask how she is going to prevent other children provoking your DS, and give your DS the tools he needs to deal with provocation.

If the childminder is allowing bigger boys to hit him its no wonder that he is also hitting out.
Her lack of firmness in dealing with the hitting would concern me-perhaps enough to change the childcare arrangements.

Thanks everyone. . I actually spoke to her about this very thing when hitting started but was reassured the others did rough and tumble play but didn't hit but now wish I had kistened to my instinct..

Crohnically inflexible I wondered too if she spoke to the other boy afterwards but I would have thought she'd have said to me 'I will speak to him now' or something but we were there for another few minutes and things just continued as normal..

I suppose drudgetrudy she would say she's not allowing it because she told him to stop. .

I think it would be better if she said no to rough and tumble play-it can soon lead on to aggression.
It sounds as if OP's son is getting nervous and wary.
The 5 year olds are modelling aggressive behaviour for him and personally I would be happier if childminder was clearer about it not being allowed.

Thanks again I am nervy myself thinking about bringing it up again. ..

I like the "how to talk so kids will listen..." book. One of the techniques in there is to keep it very short. With a 5 year old they know they need to put their shoes on when asked. You don't need to have a big discussion every time, explaining implications of not putting shoes on. Just "Shoes, Olivia" is enough to get the message across without wasting time or opening up an argument, and it respects the child's understanding.

So as part of a bigger ongoing thing about hitting, I think it's fine. If she never did anything except said "stop" when prompted to by another adult, then you have a problem. Context is everything.

I think it sounds like your DS has picked up this hitting from being with the cm and when you mentioned he seems to do it defensively, it fits in with what you witnessed if he is frequently fending off this rough and tumble behaviour.

You need to speak to the cm about your DS's behaviour and what you witnessed. If you get the feeling she is fobbing you off or not really dealing with it, I would look for alternative childcare.

Did it start after he started at the cm? Or were some of these children new to her?

Yes it started afterwards. . Very sad about it really. Feel now have left him down.

It's not your fault. You trusted a professional to care for your child and her lack of action on this has made it what it is. Children this age will learn from others behaviour so I was expecting you to say it started after. It could have been anywhere.

She sounds a bit inept at dealing with this sort of behaviour. Plenty of others wouldn't let this continue.

Please don't blame yourself.