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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

So now the Tories are bringing back the Right to Buy scheme. Anyone else think they're losing the plot?

227 replies

AyeAmarok · 14/04/2015 08:13

We have a housing crisis, especially in affordable social housing, so they are going to offer tenants the right to purchase it for up to 70% discount Shock

It seems like every day brings new nonsense.

I quite liked about 80% of what the Tories have done, until this week. It seems such a desperate attempt to buy "working-class" votes.

Election 2015: David Cameron to pledge right-to-buy extension - www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32295970

OP posts:
Damnautocorrect · 16/04/2015 18:18

If they really really feel the need to sell them off, why can't they be shared ownership that stays shared?

windchime · 17/04/2015 14:59

The Tories have been selling off chunks of the NHS in PPI contracts. For example, in our Trust, cleaners, porters and, more recently, housekeepers are all employed by G4S. They sacked permanent long-standing, respected post holders and replaced them with zero hours staff who turn up for work, or don't turn up, and we are left with a ward which isn't cleaned for two days. Total bollocks. I wouldn't vote Tory if they promised this nurse a pay rise which they haven't

drudgetrudy · 17/04/2015 15:55

Last time round when Thatcher did this my Auntie bought a council house in a lovely area of Cheshire. There were just about 8 council houses in a nice village.
She got it really cheaply and within two years made a lot of money selling it on.
Very nice for her - but housing stocks were depleted and the number of homeless families and people struggling in private lets increased.
A horrible policy when housing is so expensive and prices are pushed up by low supply.
Of course Thatcher liked it because private landlords could make money and after all making money is the most important thing even if other people suffer as a result.

JoffreyBaratheon · 19/04/2015 11:09

My neighbour bought his parents' council house (he lived there too) when Right To Buy came in. Apparently, they paid £5000. The house is now worth £180,000 but is in a spectacular location, total millionaires' row apart from these council houses (we have a view of a lake, put it like that). He still lives in the house 30 odd years on and has a drop-dead massive BMW parked outside. ;o)

Nice family, they deserve their home and I don't begrudge them it as they have been greta neighbours - but at that time £5000 could have build a new home which could easily have been ring-fenced as council property for good.

It was obvious then and it's obvious now - right to buy was just a way of getting votes and a way of destroying council housing stock and the concept of what we now, disgustingly call 'social housing'.

JoffreyBaratheon · 19/04/2015 11:12

Damn my former neighbours were council tenants when they moved in, but used the right to buy after living there about 20 years and bringing their family up. Within a year, they were repossessed and in a private rented house paying double the rent they had, and probably double the mortgage.

We heard they loaned their son money to start a business which folded after a week. They must have used their house as collateral. If they had stayed tenants they'd still be there now. Things can go wrong.

Damnautocorrect · 19/04/2015 13:21

joffrey your absolutely right, things can and sadly do go wrong for some.
I know hippy's example is a frivolous one but I don't think you can say 'one chance and your on your own'. There's too many cases of genuine need.

NoWireCoathangers · 20/04/2015 08:36

What people don't understand, the Housing Associations are heavily geared with mortgage debt. That's their template for business, draw down equity to maintain and repair the stock. If the stock is sold off at the % off that has been banded about, this will leave a deficit in debt, not a chuck of change to build more.

This policy is monumentally stupid. Social housing should stay social housing. We all have the right to buy a house, but some people just don't earn enough to do so, and this policy will only go further to disenfranchise the poor.

BackCrackandNappySack · 20/04/2015 09:34

Hippy my mum was telling me of people she knows who did exactly the same thing. I once went to view an ex council house for sale. The couple had been made redundant as were desperate to move away to a cheaper area where a relative was apparently going to give them a job, and start again, going into rented housing. I couldn't work out how (given they'd paid pennies for their council house about 25 years previously, and given then price it was currently worth) they could be in such a financial fix to the pint of having to lose their home. I mentioned this to my mum and she told me about so many people she'd known who'd live the life of Riley on the strength of the value of their ex council house, even though they'd always been on a pretty low income, constantly remortgaging, taking out equity and expecting it to go up and up in value forever. And then I remembered, the house was full of photos of them on Caribbean holiidays, and their daughter's wedding which looked very spendy…

MaliceInWonderland78 · 20/04/2015 11:03

This isn't a bad policy; howver, I'd suggest the following:

A restrictive covenant be applied to any ex-LA or ex-HA house preventing it from being let in future. That is to say that the houses would HAVE to be owner occupied. The covenant would be be enforcable against the person exercising the Right to Buy and subsequent purchasers of the property.

This would mean that the property would have no value to BTL landlords and the taxpayer wouldn't essentially end up lining the pocket of a BTL landlord by paying housing benefit to them in order to rent back a property that they once (collectively) owned.

BackCrackandNappySack · 20/04/2015 11:05

Excellent idea Malice. I am a BTL landlord and even I find the situation wrong, and utterly bonkers.

rollonthesummer · 20/04/2015 12:22

Good idea, malice

ComposHatComesBack · 20/04/2015 12:46

Given that David Cameron has shown that he is prepared to repeatedly prostitute his son's death in order to gain political advantage, I am aware that there's no depths he wouldn't sink to.

MaliceInWonderland78 · 20/04/2015 14:27

I think that's a little unfair Compo He is perfectly entitled to reflect on on his own experiences. That they (necessarily) won't be the same as others' doens't make them any less valid.

I know that these boards are predominantly left wing -I refuse to use the word "progressive" however I'm suprised at how tribal the politics has become. It belies the fact that there isn't actually that much between the two main parties.

I don't believe that there's a one size fits all, and although I'm broadly Tory, from time to time their policies leave me scratching my head (they've got IHT all wrong as far as I'm concerned)

That said, as a parent, I can't in all consciousness, vote for a government that isn't idealocially opposed to reducing the deficit and national debt a distinction that's rarely made

FizzlePop · 20/04/2015 14:30

That does sound like a good idea Malice. Could it also go further and only be sold at the same discount to first time buyers, or those with an existing "right to buy" property which is not ideally suitable or desirable to buy? And extend the same covenant to them?

Then we wouldn't have loads of people gaining oodles cashing in on house price rises either, which I also find distasteful (as a HA tenant) and would also help those crippled by private rents and unable to get on the ladder.

Not sure whether that woud work or not!

FizzlePop · 20/04/2015 14:33

x-post

FizzlePop · 20/04/2015 14:33

x-post

BackCrackandNappySack · 20/04/2015 14:33

Yes perhaps when they sell they should pay a special one-off tax into a fund for FTB help, or for more social housing.

BackCrackandNappySack · 20/04/2015 14:34

Although it still seems to defeat the object to me, versus just leaving the social housing stock where it is for people who need social housing. Confused

FizzlePop · 20/04/2015 14:35

Alongside of course, like for like in new builds and the right to hold government to account if they fail on that promise!

FizzlePop · 20/04/2015 14:37

Yes, I am largely torn, but I do think there is something in enabling families the long term security of buying the roof over their heads, in their local community, against have to upsticks and move.

TedAndLola · 20/04/2015 14:46

But buying a housing association property is LESS secure than renting one.

MaliceInWonderland78 · 20/04/2015 14:52

Back It depends on what you believe the causes of the housing crisis to be. I think renting is a valid thing to do for many, and a 'right' to buy compels nobody. As a homeowner though, I also appreciate that owning a property has (perhaps paradoxically) given us some real flexibility and given us the opportunity to to move to a different part of the country and enjoy a house (an old wreck that we're doing up) that we'd never have a hope of buying or renting otherwise.

The other thing I don't understand is that why, if we accept that "affordable" rent essentially amounts to a subsidy, why not support:

Fixed term tenures - so that people have enough time (5 years say) to get their affairs in order; or

Ensuring that the resouce (scarce) is allocated approriately - e.g. no under-occupancy (whether or not you're a housing benefit recipient); or

The charging of market rents, with HB acting as a way of means testing (the late Bob Crow lived in a housing association property thereby denying the opportunity to someone who could perhaps have been ajudged as being more in need).

voluptuagoodshag · 20/04/2015 19:46

I will go to my grave screaming about how wrong this is on every level.
The Right to Buy scheme IMO is one of the root causes of everything wrong in this country. It created instant wealth for people which is unsustainable, stigmatised people living in rented accommodation, was the foundation of the housing boom where a house no longer a place to live but a commodity and polarised the rich and poor.
We need social housing. Why build it, then sell it to build more? No, No, No! If you can't own your own home there is good reason, it's because you can't afford it. And that is absolutely fine, nothing to be bothered by because living in affordable rented housing was the alternative and it was great. But Right to Buy changed the natural dynamics and removed that option for people. No affordable housing stock left! Arghhhhh and now DC wants to do it again.

voluptuagoodshag · 20/04/2015 19:47

Why is it less secure to rent an affordable home? My parents rented for over 50 years!!!

shillwheeler · 20/04/2015 20:50

Well, Cameron has most likely lost my vote with this one. I really hate how divisive politics has become. And, as a BTL landlord, I am heartily sick of all the landlord knocking that is going on (like everything, there are some good, some bad, and whether you like it or not, private rented sector provides a necessary service and should be treated like any other business).

That said, this RTB extension makes no sense and is wrong on so many levels.

First, the government does not own the housing stock it is proposing to give away. Housing associations do. As another poster said, they finance their social renting operations through massive borrowing. They will need to be compensated (assuming Cameron's proposal is legal). This means more borrowing and/or a large publicly funded subsidy for a relatively small number of people, who enjoy some of the more secure tenancies in the country.

Secondly, a massive disincentive to housing associations to invest (even assuming they are able to buy like for like in a possibly inflating property market).

Thirdly, proposed method of funding apart from borrowing is for councils to sell off their more expensive properties and reinvest in building on brown field sites on 1:1 basis. In fact this will result in less social housing. Even allowing for regional variations, and assuming promises of ring fencing are genuine (and I seem to have heard that one before), it will be virtually impossible to build 1:1 on brownfield sites. By their nature, these will be more expensive, due to contamination and other issues. If all these brown field sites are so wonderful, why have they been standing empty for years (locally we have a number of beautiful listed buildings literally falling into disrepair, some owned by...the council!).

Fourthly, many of the discounted homes will find themselves back in the private sector (as happened with original RTB...I own one myself, which I bought from the mortgagee; on one level a good deal....but which required lots of time and money spent on it to bring it back into habitable condition after its owners trashed it after taking their frustrations out on it after the bank repossessed). You don't have to be Einstein to work out, this will result in less social housing, more relying on the private rented sector.

I can see the appeal of placing some type of restrictive covenant limiting the RTB houses to owner occupiers, or some type of criteria being applied. RTB currently triggers an element of repayment of the discount if sold within five years. The problem with extending this is that it would make the houses hard, if not impossible, to mortgage, so would defeat the whole idea behind the policy (which is crackers) any way.

Why make the distinction between HA renters and private renters? Given we are not yet in a Stalinist state, I am being somewhat tongue in cheek. But there are lots of hard working renters in the private sector who may well see this giveaway as a kick in the teeth and a double whammy (less security, higher rents, and no subsidy).

Personally, in my view, owning your own home is a good thing to aspire to, but it is not, and should not be a right. Having access to secure decent housing should be everyone's right, and this ill conceived policy makes this less likely. Call me cynical, but I think it is a lame attempt to appeal to what remains of the working class by evoking some Thatcher-esque sell-off, although I am quite mystified why anyone in Conservative Central Office thinks this will work.

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