to have had a bet on the Grand National when I'm not sure I approve of the risk to the horses?

[grovel]

The Druid's Nephew at 14 to 1. The race will be on the TV here whether I like it or not.

Cave
So as long as it is a 'tiny fraction' it is ok.... right?
I am still not sure why you are still quoting foal figures..... regardless of how many are bred upwards of 1000 racehorses are slaughtered each year and that does not include those killed on the racetrack or in training. Your argument rests on the fact that these animals are a fraction. My argument rests on the fact that these animals are thrown away like trash when the racing industry has no more use for them.
All you are doing is trying to minimise it.
But as I stated before, it is to be expected by those who defend the racing industry.

Strangely, I just can't be arsed Council Your comments are boringly predictable and rather dull but hey ho.... there's always one

I know, Can't. Because you have no logical argument, so instead you resort to predictable sneers. I think it's safe to say you've never owned or bred horses. In which case, your opinion is just a fart in the wind.

Your are certainly not 'safe' to assume anything Councilalthough of course it would be so much easier for you if your assumptions were fact the case which, unfortunately for you, are not

I take it that all of the people complaining about the 'cruelty' of the GN are all vegans and don't use any any animal derivatives like leather and so in? And don't eat animal flesh?

I am, and I dont.

I bet most of you have no problem leaving your cats and dogs alone for most of the day while you're out at work, despite the distress this causes to your own animals.

No pets.

If not, learn a little about horses and watch how they run and jump when left to their own devices .

That's really interesting! Can you link me to the footage of horses running the Grand National course (or any course) when left to their own devices?

ItsAll I think means for people to watch horses running and jumping around that 4 1/2 course with 30 fences that Mother Nature created all by herself in the wild

Oh, Can't. It's safe for me to assume a lot about you, judging by the standard of your, erm, 'knowledge' about race horses.

There's this thing called Google of you want to see how horses behave in the wild. HTH.

We are a horsey family, my dad at 80 knows more about horseracing than all of us on this thread put together.

My old girl was PTS last year at 31. She regularly jumped out of her paddock over 4 ft fences.

The National is a dangerous and difficult race but few fatalities occur since they altered Beecher's.

Horses are actually very delicate animals with spindly legs. They can and do, die in the field by breaking legs/tendons etc. All equestrian sports are a risk to horse and rider. I will say this - I have suffered far more bone breaks and injuries than any of my horses ever have !

Again Council keep assuming while I sit back and look at the numerous pictures I have on my wall of numerous racehorses I have had the pleasure and heartbreak of looking after over the years

Like i've looked after and bred horses, you mean?

By the way, stop doing smiley faces. How old are you, 11?

Am sorry Council Does this suit you better

I'd be more impressed with a GIF.

Oh, so you want me to prove it to you...... is that right? Really? Oh dear.
Ok Council... just for you

I have 5 ex racers. I'm not a fan of the National (or any other race for that matter.) The only reason is I have always had horses for pleasure. All 5 of the ex racers have come straight from the track to me and have successfully been retrained into dressage.

I've been to many racing yards and I do think what a lot of people don't understand is the horses are bred and trained to be athletes. They are also very well treated.

People who don't understand horses will watch horse racing and think it's cruel. Tell that to a horse who has been been bred and trained to race. It's all they want to do.

I have friends who do cross country (as I have in the past). Horses are trained for that and some fences are huge. Likewise some horses are trained for showjumping and the fences they jump aren't small.

Horses can be injured or killed no matter what they're used for.

All 5 of the ex racers have come straight from the track to me and have successfully been retrained into dressage

It is a shame more ex-racers are not able to have a second career.

It is a shame more ex-racers are not able to have a second career.

Many do though. If I had room for more I'd have them in a flash. I've had 12 now that have been successfully retrained. They do come with their issues that sometimes can't be resolved but those issues can be lived with.

My argument rests on the fact that these animals are thrown away like trash when the racing industry has no more use for them.

This statement isn't true to all ex racers. I have 5, my sister has 7 and most of my friends have ex racers that have been retrained into either show jumping, dressage or being happy hacks.

The BHA need to be doing much more to address this.

The BHA need to be doing much more to address this.

Address what? The GN?

No..... the rehabilitation of racehorses.

This website explains some of the excellent welfare and safety initiatives taking place in British horse-racing currently

www.racingexplained.co.uk/horse-welfare/the-horse-comes-first/

"In recent years the average number of runners per annum is in excess of 90,000. Within the last 20 years, the equine fatality rate in British Racing has fallen by one-third (from 0.3% to 0.2% of runners)."

And I agree with others on here that this figure can still be improved upon.

Horses are prey animals. They are designed by nature to run in short bursts of speed as far as necessary to escape a predator; so the sport of horse-racing has built on that natural tendency as has the breeding of the thoroughbred over hundreds of years (a sort of speeded up evolution).

As a previous poster said, some areas of the horses conformation make it fragile (ie during the gallop at various points, all the weight of the animal is resting on one part of the lower leg and hoof). And if you keep or have kept horses you know that they can injure themselves just as easily out at pasture, as at full gallop.

From website above:
"A study by Liverpool University found that 62% of “traumatic injuries” (ranging from grazes to fractures) suffered by a sample of leisure and competition horses occurred when turned out in the field, compared to only 13% during ridden exercise. The British Horse Society also estimates that there are over 3,000 road accidents annually involving horses."

And if you've visited horses in a virtual wild or natural state (in Argentina for example) you can find them in a pretty sorry state: starving in some cases, in agony with terrible lameness or leg injuries, or skin diseases. So don't assume it's all tea and cakes for horses just 'loafing around' in the wild either.

And it's at this point in this annual thread that I suggest (as I do every year!) that anyone who is interested look at the following You Tube clip by James May on 'the equine athlete'. It is fascinating stuff!

Perhaps the ethics of the GN should be a separate discussion but to address those who want to ban the industry of horse-racing as a whole; personally I don't think it is wrong for these animals (as with working dogs) to do the very thing they are bred for. Quite simply, if they don't, these superb equine athletes will no longer exist.

And finally ...

Oh yes - and if you think you can make half a ton of horse do something it doesn't want to - then look up the antics of Mad Moose!!

What would you suggest they do? There's lots of organisations out there on google that people read with taking on an ex racer. It all reads to be lovely and easy. The reality is, unless people are experienced on taking on ex racers they can be a handful.

They have no 'brakes'
They're not used to being ridden with long stirrups.
They don't take up contact.
They're not supple and this takes months to correct
They are not turned out at a racing stable and it takes them time to adjust.
They're used to a strict routine
They're not used to a GP saddle
A lot of them crib
Finding the right bit can be a nightmare

Retraining them takes months of hard work for both horse and owner. I can only comment on my experience of ex racers but there no 'quick fix' to undo what they were bred and trained for.

It would be great if more funding was available to enable a transition out of racing and into a second career for more of these animals. But that will never happen due to the sheer scale of horses who are never going to cut it as racehorses. Furthermore owners often want to try and get some sort of return on their money by sending horsed to the sales.

Racehorses are generally ridden with long stirrups when walking and trotting although what constitutes long can be subjective...... irons are usually only pulled up for cantering/ work gallops. Some lads like to ride out shorter than others but that is very much down to personal preference. As yearlings irons are VERY long.

Most racehorses do have brakes..... some are stronger than others, a smaller minority can take a very keen hold but most are ok.

Some crib but certainly not most
A growing number of trainers like to turn horses out into round pens.

Some requite a lot of rehab/intervention and some don't.