To wonder about the values of Tory/UKIP voters

[Campaspe]

Why would anyone vote for a party that promotes austerity rather than a progressive, liberal party (Labour, SNP, Greens, Plaid Cymru)? I'm not saying for a minute that Tory voters don't care about poor or vulnerable people, so how do they square their political support with their conscience? Is it that these voters genuinely believe Labour caused the recession (most analysts now discredit this theory and point to Tory failure to manage the deficit, but maybe these voters aren't aware).

So, given the economic mismanagement stuff doesn't stick, why??? Dislike of Ed Miliband - in which case, why not another progressive party? How do such voters justify the bedroom tax, benefit sanctions, supporting tax evasion, failure to protect libraries, the growing divide between rich and poor etc etc. What are their reasons???

Are you prepared for the inevitable backlash?

(Note that this won't contain any actual explanation of why you're wrong, or why the Tories are great - just posts about Ed Milliband's face and bloody liberals and scroungers).

get over yourself. I vote tory and my values are just fine.
you're not a better person than me, morally or otherwise, just because you vote for a certain party.

Economics doesn't have a "right" and "wrong" answer, OP. Not yet anyway. Some people believe that austerity measure work. Personally I disagree with you re Tory failure to manage the deficit. It's larger than it was, but the rate of increase has reduced massively. I'm unconvinced that Labour would have achieved the same, given their track record.

Why is being liberal "progressive"

I think right wing parties are progressive

I guess that kind of answers your question.

Lefties who use the word progressive is a bug bear of mine. That may be your skewed opinion, but it isn't fact that left wing policies are progressive!

So, given the economic mismanagement stuff doesn't stick, why???

That's not a given! Labour always mess up and the Conservatives always get it in the neck for having to clear up afterwards.
We would all love to be the 'nice' party on a SpendSpendSpend mission but eventually the money runs out and the 'nasty' party have to have the courage to say the unpopular message of 'we are living beyond our means'.

My parents vote Tory. They do it because they don't believe in tax credits and want minimal benefits as they believe it is peoples own fault as they are lazy/don't work hard enough.

Neither want foreign people here as they think when there are a lot of immigrants it ruins the area.

I can understand why people vote Tory. Those with conservative values usually find common ground, those with money find protection. The 'progressive liberals' have heart, there's no doubt, but do they realistically have the means? No, not really.
UKIP and Farage are a terrible choice though. They have nothing. They scream immigration and have simpletons eating out of their hands. Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but UKIP are just rasict, homephobic and a wasted vote.

Labour are my party. However, they spend money like someone on their last shopping spree. They create the money holes, then people vote in Tory to plug them up. The Tories go too far, hurt the people who can't afford to lose more, so they bring in Labour for the 'common people'. Until there's a party who can be fair and economically brilliant, we will keep flip flopping between the two. If the only other alternative is UKIP, I'd rather put with 5 more years of Tories.

"(Note that this won't contain any actual explanation of why you're wrong, or why the Tories are great - just posts about Ed Milliband's face and bloody liberals and scroungers)."

You forgot "lefties". But they didn't!

I have to admit that the attitudes I despise are more prevalent towards the Right. Poor-bashing, theft and fraud disguised as commerce, xenophobia etc.

But some of the Left stuff is pretty bad too: groupthink, crimes against language, fiscal illiteracy.

Sigh.

I agree with purits about the cyclical nature of the right / left government but would argue that labour have been needed to mop up socially after the conservatives have finished their term in power. This obviously requires different levels and focus for investment. Given that the focus for conservatives is making money and building business at the detriment of most of the 'common man', labour are then voted in to try and even the balance. It's parents with shared residency and two styles of parenting that are poles apart each trying to stamp their mark and over compensate for the failings of the other.

The economy is overall in better shape now under the Tories than it was when they came to power. Look at the rest of Europe if you want to see how it could have gone.

Sorry, cross posted with needaneasteregg

Master, I always compare Labour and Tories to a 1950s couple. Labour is the stay at home wife, seems to do all the hard work but spends all the money. The husband (Tories) eventually comes home, hits the roof because he realises that they have no more money to feed the kids. So he takes over, is a right arse to the family, they have to go without nice things for a while, but they seem to get back on track.

Then there's wierd Uncle Ukip, who wouldn't mind moving in, because he thinks Mr Patal next door was the reason Mrs Labour lost all the money....

Sorry that was mrsstaord not Master! I have a migraine hangover...

I couldn't recommend reading this book more: www.theguardian.com/books/2012/apr/22/righteous-mind-jonathan-haidt-review

The Righteous Mind: Why Good People are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt

Left wing and right wing aren't using the same set of values to quantify good and bad policy, so they will NEVER agree about politics. This book explains in such an interesting way and helped me empathise with conservative views without agreeing with them.

/\ /\

Labour are my party. However, they spend money like someone on their last shopping spree. They create the money holes, then people vote in Tory to plug them up. The Tories go too far, hurt the people who can't afford to lose more, so they bring in Labour for the 'common people'. Until there's a party who can be fair and economically brilliant, we will keep flip flopping between the two. If the only other alternative is UKIP, I'd rather put with 5 more years of Tories.

Yes, this.

I do get so sick of reading on Mumsnet how people who vote for Conservatives are so inferior to the 'enlightened ones'.

My brother votes Tory because he thinks their policies make economic sense. I don't agree but I think it's a bit unfair to put them together with UKIP (although of course there are many MPs such as the 1922 committee who have a lot in common with UKIP), as parties can be economically but not socially conservative, like the current Tory leadership (I'm a Green voter btw so not some Tory apologist).

As for UKIP, I assume people vote for them because they are racist homophobic cunts.

Probably people who are right wing won't actually have to suffer the cuts by the Tory government. Like cuts to disability benefits which are hitting lots of us hard.

Loads of UKIP voters I see around on fB only care about immigration and don't know about their other policies. And believe stuff like we need health insurance for health care in other eU countries and other such myths.

So the whole country seems to be going to screw the disabled over. Great.

labour/Tory dunno, seems like a continuous circle of flipping from one to the other to me as others have described. can't see it changing. Proportional representation?

However, UKIP. I couldn't do it and can't understand the mind set of anyone that falls for them. Neatly encapsulated for me in my home town.There's a woman that comes into Costa every day at the same time with her mate. They sit on the sofa at the back of a table together, not facing each other as you'd expect, so they can comment on everyone that walks past. I sit near them working on my laptop. Sometimes I bring my kids in after school for a hot chocolate and they do their homework. Anyway, they sit there with twisted up faces and pursed lips, passing judgement on all who go past. I've heard them go on about immigrants, bitch about single mothers if someone young walks past with a pram (many are nannies). They've called me disgusting for working while my children are there (sending a quick email) while simultaneously criticising the nice Bulgarian manager that serves them with a smile every day despite their screwed up bitter and twisted faces, for "taking all the jobs" (they never say thank you). If my kids smile at them they scowl back. The other day they were bitching about "why do these silly girls think they have to have a job like the men, let the men have the jobs" (I was on my laptop again). The nastiest one now comed in with the most enormous UKIP badge pinned to the front of her coat, seriously massive, the size of a small side plate. Says it all for me about UKIP.

It's very easy to bang on about austerity if you aren't going to actually have to live an austere life IMO.

I'm not a Tory voter. But the last labour government did waste a lot if money we didn't have - the health in pregnancy grant that was used for posh buggies and NCT courses is a good example.