To think that we should all vote either Lab or Con?

[yolofish]

All the pre-election speculation seems to be about horse-trading between Labour and Conservative and which party might help propel them into power if the result is no majority.

Whatever your opinions about the two big parties (and I can see positives for both and trust neither), wouldnt it be better for the country to have a result where there is a true mandate? therefore that party actually gets a proper chance to put its plans into action, rather than everyone playing games and trading points off each other for their own little pet projects. With a mandate we could then judge them on their actual record while in office.

Everything I read says we'll never get a majority govt again.

YABU
We should all vote for the candidates we feel most comfortable with - be that the best MP for your constituency or the best party to lead the country, in your own opinion.

If I had any influence, I'd ban polls being published from now until the general election and try to get rid of tactical voting completely - I urge everyone to vote for the best candidate they are offered.

I doubt there are many people who fully agree with all policies of any one single party, you have to look at what's out there and vote for the one you'd most like to represent you.

Yes - highly unreasonable. We should all clearly either vote LibDems or Greens.

I don't want either of these egomaniacal, white, male, privileged teams of wankers to have a mandate. Although, goodness knows who else won't fuck things up worse. The LibDems used to be the go to for people who were leftish but they got into bed with the Tories. The Greens have the best policies but people I trust say they couldn't run a piss up in a brewery.

Thankfully I'm waiting for my citizenship somewhere else and have a whole new set of self-serving tossers to assess.

I used to be so idealistic.

Inside every cynical person there is a disappointed idealist MrsTP.

I completely see your point yolo. The thought of the SNP holding the power over the rest of the UK frightens me to death!

If you're sufficiently enthused by a party which has a realistic shot, then of course you should vote for that party.

If not, you can base your vote on:

1. people not parties - only if your prospective candidates have a strong independent streak. Forget the 'local champion' stuff; MPs are legislators not glorified social workers.
2. pour encourager les autres: vote for your ideal party of choice in order to shift the debate towards their policies, and to make them contenders next time.
3. least worst option: tactically against the leading local party you hate most.

I would tend towards option 2 in a safe seat - only a truly exceptional candidate could make me choose option 1. In a marginal (less than 10% difference between the two leading parties) I would choose option 3 every time.

If you want to know whether you're in a marginal or not, look at Lord Ashcroft's polling, or some of the other constituency specific polling out there. If he hasn't bothered to poll your seat, you're probably not in a marginal.

For example, I would vote UKIP in either a Labour or Tory safe seat (option 2), or in a Tory/UKIP marginal, or in a Labour/UKIP marginal, or in a Lib Dem/UKIP marginal.

I would vote Conservative in a Tory/Lib Dem marginal, or a Tory/Labour marginal (option 3).

I would vote Lib Dem in a Lib Dem/Labour marginal, as an anti-Labour vote.

That should cover most English seats; Scotland has its own dynamics, as does Wales/NI.

YABU. Because votes for fringe parties scare the main ones and give them an idea of policies that matter.

The classic example is UKIP (who I hate). They've scared the main parties into putting immigration high on the agenda.

Now I disagree about all of what they say but clearly lots of people don't and it's influenced policy.

OP if we took your argument to its logical conclusion, why hold elections at all? They only cause instability and uncertainty. You propose forcing people into a false choice between two parties whose policies don't appeal to a significant portion of the electorate.

As much as I can't stand UKIP, they do represent a significant portion of opinion in England, those opinions should be reflected in Westminster, with both of the Labour and Tory parties being cautiously pro EU.

Also, your argument is entirely Anglo-centric, the Tories aren't one of the big parties in Scotland, in 2010 they were a distant fourth, getting only 16% of the vote and one MP. What choice would the people of Scotland have if voting between two unionist parties, when the major fault line in Scottish politics is Nationalism vs Unionism.

I refuse to give my vote to a party I despise (Tories) or a party that has betrayed its principles and supporters (Labour) a good portion of the electorate feels the same. I will be voting Scottish Green this time.

If someone held a gun to my head and said 'you must vote Labour or Tory, I would vote Labour. That does not mean I have given them a mandate to act in my interest, it wouldn't be an endorsement of their programme. I would rather vote with my conscience and back a party that reflect my views on social justice, the environment, education and Scottish independence.

Crap idea all round really.

ComposHatComesBack Yes, you can only vote tactically if you're not repulsed by both main parties locally standing. If I were in Scotland I would not be able to bring myself to vote either Labour (as an anti-SNP vote) or SNP (as an anti-Labour vote).

"Everything I read says we'll never get a majority govt again."
Have you considered the possibility that that might be a good thing?

Everything I read says we'll never get a majority govt again

I would suggest reading rather more widely then. It isn't possible to make authoritative statements like that.

FPTP is set up to make majority governments more likely and in every post war election with the exception of 1974 and 2010 has delivered a majority.

It is probably fair comment to say if current voting patterns continue then the there will be more coalitions or minority governments in future, but there is no guarantee that will happen.

I think YABU, imo the reason we are unlikely to have a majority government for the near term is because Labour and Conservative policy has become far more closely aligned than in the past. It's therefore much harder to differentiate between the parties no matter how much rhetoric and spin they try to put on their ideas.

Sadly we are also greatly lacking great leaders and statesmen in our politicians right now. Instead, we have a bunch of schoolboys more concerned with power games and keeping the opposition OUT of government than having strong enough vision and ideology to win a clear mandate to get INTO government.

Personally I think the reason we have seen a rise in minority parties is because they represent a clear and different set of policies (I'm not saying right or wrong) that is no longer offered by the two main parties. I think this is a good thing as it's forcing labour and conservatives to revisit some of their core principles and to reassess their "red line" issues in a way that they haven't had to whilst tinkering around the edges of primary concerns in an attempt to try to look different enough to simply win votes on a term by term basis.

What, so we have a system like the US, where only the view of two parties (with little between them) and by extension business, interests count? Where minority parties don't exist or have the ability to influence the political climate? Where the only way to attain high office is to have consirable private wealth? (Much more than here-but it is going that way)Is that what you mean?
Don't forget it wasn't so long ago that the two main parties in the uk were Tory and liberal.

some really interesting comments here. I live in a very safe Tory seat, so my vote is not going to count for much anyway - but I will still vote, of course.

I suppose I think it will end up being either Labour or Tory but without a majority for either of them. the hangers-on and horse-traders do worry me - specifically UKIP and the SNP. I think the Lib Dems are out of the picture for now.

"Everything I read says we'll never get a majority govt again"

Reead more?

And vote for who you want as an MP.

Seats are not safe in perpetuity. Only until majorities are chipped away by people turning out to vote, and voting for who they really want as their MP. A good and truly local candidate (not a a Westminster villager who is 'looking forward to making my home in your constituency') will always do better than expected, and that may bring change.

Getting involved with your local party structure and selection committee might improve the calibre of candidates, and give the opportunity to vote for someone local, and with the kind of pre-politics real world experience that might be useful.

Hangers on and horse traders?The SNP are the majority party in Scotland have existed for over 80 years and is actually the 3rd largest political party by membership in uk. You can't lump UKIP and SNP in together their vaues and ethos are polls apart.
YABU Labour /Conservative same thing not even different wrapping. We need choice.

yolofish I suggest you read a bit more background information and educate yourself before you lump UKIP and SNP in together. The SNP are neither horse traders nor hangers-on, and are in fact the majority party in Scotland so I find your comments rather Anglo-centric and ill-informed at best.

I'm voting Labour this year. I foolishly voted CONservative last time. You vote conservative and see how long it is before they bring in some kind of scheme akin to the workhouses. It's not far away I reckon. More fool me for voting that way last election. Won't make that mistake again.

I am voting for the party that will make a landslide majotity in my country. SNP.
It is unlikely that either labour or conservative will win any seats in Scotland.

Regretfully OP I think you are right.
My personal priorities are 1. To keep out the ukip racists, and 2. To keep out the greens who would turn off the lights and put everyone out of work.
So with a heavy heart I will vote for the party that will most likely to do that in my constituency.