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AIBU?

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Original poster

...to give way at this roundabout?

51 replies

ProvisionallyAnxious · 29/03/2015 23:22

I posted on here a month or so back about my nerves as a new driver - everyone was very helpful and I am feeling much better about it all now! I was wondering if I could ask for your thoughts on a situation I found myself in this afternoon.

So, I'm approaching a mini roundabout (purple car in the picture!) turning left. To my immediate right is a one-way street (feeding onto the roundabout) that is very rarely used. Opposite me is a big queue of cars, turning right, so aiming for the same turn-off as me. My understanding is that in this situation (where you're at 180 degrees to each other) the first car to arrive has priority, so I let the "blue" car across from me go ahead. The problem is that all of the other cars behind that car then proceed to follow it out onto the roundabout - I think a lot of drivers tend to 'ignore' the one-way street at that roundabout and therefore assume right of way over people opposite them.

Then the traffic lights for the pedestrian crossing (the red lines on the picture) turn red, so the cars that have pulled out get stuck on the roundabout - there's no space for me to pull out at all. The traffic lights turn green and as they start to move on I wait for a moment to see what the remaining car on the other side of the roundabout is going to do - it's a mini so if it were a larger roundabout I'd have pulled out as there'd be time for me to turn before they reach me but I'm wary of there not being enough space if they assume priority. They hold back to let me out and as they do, the car behind me honks really aggressively (not a "toot toot, you can go", but a "MOVE!" kind of honk if that makes sense) and as I look in the mirror the driver behind me is waving his hands really angrily.

As I pull out I toot back (not as loudly) and stick up my finger. Confused

I think I probably WBU to get angry/upset in response, but was he BU to honk? I don't think he can have been waiting behind me for more than 30 seconds, and I didn't particularly want to bully my way onto the roundabout. What do people think (and what would you do on a roundabout where priority isn't obvious / other drivers are assuming priority)?

...to give way at this roundabout?
OP posts:
maliaki · 30/03/2015 09:18

Yanbu you were meant ti give way and that other driver was too impatient. You always give way to the right and since blue car was on the roundabout you had to give way to them and then all the others who also had right of way.

HazleNutt · 30/03/2015 09:25

" My understanding is that in this situation (where you're at 180 degrees to each other) the first car to arrive has priority" - maybe I'm misunderstanding what you wrote, but no, it does not matter who arrives first. It's not an American 4-way stop. If there are cars coming from your right then they have priority, and yes, if the cars from the blue arrow direction keep coming and coming, then they have priority and you just have to wait.

Guy behind you probably thought you had enough space, but honestly, just ignore this. It's way better to piss someone off than to over-estimate your abilities and cause an accident.

AlternativeTentacles · 30/03/2015 09:27

If the blue car was still at the junction when you arrived, even if they arrived first, and there was space to go, then you shouldn't have waited for the blue car. You give way to those on the right. If nobody on the right, then go.

financialwizard · 30/03/2015 09:30

Highway Code states:

185
When reaching the roundabout you should

give priority to traffic approaching from your right, unless directed otherwise by signs, road markings or traffic lights
check whether road markings allow you to enter the roundabout without giving way. If so, proceed, but still look to the right before joining
watch out for all other road users already on the roundabout; be aware they may not be signalling correctly or at all
look forward before moving off to make sure traffic in front has moved off.

Shame so little people where I live understand how to give way.

Grantaire · 30/03/2015 09:43

The best thing you can learn when driving is to not let other road users wind you up. There will always be impatient drivers, aggression, tailgaters, people cutting you up, honking, swearing. You cannot let them affect you.

I am not entirely clear on the situation. Yes you always give way to the right. It isn't a junction though. If you pull up to a roundabout at the same time as a car pulls up to another exit, you don't sit and wait automatically. You judge the size of the roundabout, the speed of the vehicle, the way they are indicating and assess your ability to join the roundabout from that. Some roundabouts are so busy that the presence of other cars approaching from other exits is guaranteed. Wait for a clear roundabout and sometimes you wait forever. If there were no other cars ON the roundabout and it was safe and appropriate for you to turn, that accounts for the other chap's frustration. At no point was it appropriate, fair or considerate for him to toot or gesticulate.

It will come with time. Have you considered a pass plus or extra lessons?

RachelWatts · 30/03/2015 09:50

Something similar happened to me at a roundabout at a motorway junction, so faster traffic on the roundabout. As I had a small engined car with low acceleration I needed a bigger gap, but every time I saw a gap big enough, the van behind beeped to hurry me up, which made me hesitate and miss the gap! I was stuck for 20 minutes, and the driver of the van behind was apoplectic with rage.

HazleNutt · 30/03/2015 10:59

An American friend was recently ranting about drivers not knowing the rules. That he gets to the roundabout first, but other cars just keep coming and won't let him in, and keep honking when he squeezes in anyway.
So basically he believed that roundabouts work like 4-way-stops in the US (where the person who gets to the junction first has priority). Shock He's lived and driven here for 5 years assuming he has priority when he does not - how on earth has he not yet caused an accident yet is anyone's guess..

AlternativeTentacles · 30/03/2015 11:08

Roundabouts usually say 'give way' if you have to give way. Big red signs. Example shown.

...to give way at this roundabout?
sanfairyanne · 30/03/2015 11:16

i know someone who used to think the person on the roundabout had to give way to traffic filtering on
they were v dangerous on the road Shock

sanfairyanne · 30/03/2015 11:20

its the white dotted lines that mean 'give way' at roundabouts

Grantaire · 30/03/2015 11:23

HazleNutt Shock

I wonder how many of the people I assume are terrible and aggressive drivers are just confused Americans? What on earth did he think the Give Way signs mean?

Grantaire · 30/03/2015 11:29

Somebody on here recently said they had been in a car with a colleague who thought it was full beam if there was oncoming traffic, dipped for a clear road. Plus on motorway threads somebody always talks about the slow lane and the fast lane like it's a swimming pool. Suddely, it all makes sense. Nobody knows what they are doing.

Original poster
ProvisionallyAnxious · 30/03/2015 11:30

HazleNutt, your friend's story made me laugh. :)

R.e. the priority going to the first car to arrive I the thought this was the case because in the situation I described both cars are equally "to the right" of one another, so don't have priority that way - does that make sense?

Grantaire

In most situations I definitely wouldn't have waited with other cars at 12 o' clock (for example on a larger roundabout). Once the buildup of cars from the pedestrian crossing moved on there was a pause of perhaps 2 seconds as I double checked to my right - so I think it was the waiting before that wound the driver behind me up.

I'm planning on doing an IAM course (possibly even the advanced driving test) at some point - I think in the long run it would be more helpful than pass plus.

Finally, r.e. the diagram, I had vivid memories of previous threads about driving in which most of the thread consisted of "I'm having trouble visualising what you mean...", with someone eventually making a diagram, so I thought I'd cut out the first step! Smile

OP posts:
maliaki · 30/03/2015 11:36

I wonder how many are those who didn't learn here and haven't bothered to check the rules for here? So many people dont even look to the right when getting on a roundabout, have they chosen to be ignorant or are they just not giving a shit? Maybe the dvla should run adverts about basic driving rules for the top ones which get flouted? I know my nan thinks middle lane hogging on motorways I'd fine too, that should go on the list!

HazleNutt what did he say when you corrected him?

maliaki · 30/03/2015 11:39

Op it's the first car to get on the roundabout generally. Sometimes you can get go if plenty of room even if they are there first or getting on.

Toooldtobearsed · 30/03/2015 11:43

The best thing is when all 4 of you arrive at a roundabout at the same time. A kind of Mexican standoff ensues, with everyone being too wary to actually go Grin
I always go for it - theory being i am assisting everyone else in getting moving.

I drive a big 4x4 (middle of country), and once, only once, someone cut me up so badly, I sounded my horn. So, big, kick ass car, angry woman leaning on the horn with full weight. What came out?

pip.....pip.. the wimpiest, most toy like peep in the world. I was ashamed.

Original poster
ProvisionallyAnxious · 30/03/2015 11:49

AlternativeTentacles

I'm sorry, but I'm sure that's not right! The thick dashed line at a roundabout indicates you give way from the right. I'm sure the lack of a give way sign at a roundabout does not mean you don't need to give way.

Someone asked about P plates - I had them for a while and it mostly helped, but I took them off because a couple of people did extraordinarily dangerous things to overtake me. Then again that's happened once or twice since I took them off, so perhaps there's just something in the water round here. Hmm

Whenever I find myself behind a slow driver, regardless of plates or whatever I try to think about why they might be going slow - I find imagining that they have precious cargo, like their newborn child being brought home from the hospital (or an I'll cat as someone up thread mentioned!) makes me feel more serene. Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
ProvisionallyAnxious · 30/03/2015 11:51

Tooold

That's brilliant. Grin

OP posts:
Grantaire · 30/03/2015 11:56

My confusion wasn't about the situation once the pedestrian crossing situation came into play. That made sense. Smile It was clarification of what was happening as you approached the roundabout. Sounds like there was a car approaching at 180 degrees, straight ahead. If you treat it as a 4 way junction, then you are at stalemate. Think about it. S/he is technically to your right but you are technically to his/her right too. You are both in exactly the same situation. You are both joining a roundabout with a car directly opposite also joining. The way to assess whether to join the roundabout is to consider where they are indicating and whether your pulling onto the roundabout will cause the other vehicle to have to slow down or change direction. If yes, you wait. If no, it is safe to go. Even if the other car was already on the roundabout, the decision making process is the same. You shouldn't cause the other car to have to react to you or have to drive erratically yourself in order to make the turn. I suppose technically any cars on the left turn are also to your right. It is a one way circle. The speed, position and path of all and any cars determines whether you should proceed, not a priority in terms of approach. You just give way to the right as we drive clockwise.

Not sure any of that made sense!

Original poster
ProvisionallyAnxious · 30/03/2015 11:59

Grantaire

No, that makes sense - thankyou!

OP posts:
PurpleCrazyHorse · 30/03/2015 12:32

DH always said to me (when I got back behind the wheel for the first time in years) that the person getting irritated behind me would be way more annoyed if I had an accident and then blocked the road for ages.

It kind of kept the hesitating in perspective. I did find P plates helped a bit as at least people knew it was likely I would hesitate at junctions. However, better to wait for a good gap than crash (it would be your fault too on the roundabout).

I hate mini roundabouts as there's simply no time to scoot round when there's cars on the other approaches. Bigger roundabouts are easier as there's time to turn before the other car gets to you. Unfortunately mini roundabouts usually require a long wait.

People beep in frustration but they're also not always right. I've been beeped at a couple of times and the first time it really knocked my confidence. I've been driving a number of years and I've got loads better knowing how much time/space I need pulling out and also care less about people behind me.

Elizarome · 30/03/2015 12:47

DoJo I often thought about that when I was starting off on my own - people don't know that you are new to driving, they don't know if you've got a cat in the car, and they have no idea why you might be hesitating, so don't let their interpretation of the situation affect your actions as it's your comfort and confidence that's important.

^^
This, absolutely. People can get very unpleasant when they're behind the wheel, but don't let them bully you into taking action you don't feel is safe. Better to give way than to take it and have a collision!

LIZS · 30/03/2015 12:51

I suspect it was the hesitation they were annoyed about not the giving way itself which technically was correct. However as others have said if you arrived together you should have had time to turn before the blue car reached you.

Lilmissconcerned · 30/03/2015 23:04

You were right to give away to traffic on the roundabout... Think you've already been told off enough for your behaviour xxx

lithewire · 30/03/2015 23:16

Ignore knobheads who toot at you because you're holding them up for a few precious seconds of their day.

I was on only my third driving lesson at the weekend and some utter tool in the car behind thought it best to blast the horn, gesticulate and shout "move!" when I was hesitant to go at a crossroads. I was in my instructor's car so it couldn't have been more obvious that I'm a learner. Made me 10 x more stressed than I already was. Go when you feel it's safe and not before, that's how I understand it...