Ethnicity considerations in casting (theatre)

[manicinsomniac]

Do you think it matters if the ethnicity of an actor matches the character they playing or fits in with the era/location of the play?

The human in me says no it doesn't matter at all.
The artist in me says it's very important to be authentic.

At the moment I think the artistic part is winning but I feel like I ought to fight against that for the purposes of equal opportunities.
AIBU

(nb, I'm not talking about school plays or amateur plays, I cast both of these based almost purely on talent and a little on personality but never on appearance. I'm talking about professional theatre - which I certainly don't have any jurisdiction over so it's all hypothetical really!)

Thanks, manic. I hope I didn't derail - this is a great thread, thank you for starting it.

fair - I think that would be fascinating. I have seen a production where Emilia was black, but it felt uncomfortable somehow.

I think there are times when you wouldn't want a mixed ethnic cast; it sort of denies a really problematic history. Eg. Danny Boyle at the Olympic games. I though it pretty disgraceful to cheerfully cast POC in historical roles but somehow forget to mention the history of subjugation on the basis of race. The way he told it, everyone turned up on the Windrush to an already integrated society and we all just get along marvellously now, no white privilege, no race riots, no siree not us.

I'm sure there were some Good Intentions there somewhere but I think you absolutely shouldn't paper over our deeply troubling past by casting people of colour in happy, fully integrated historical roles.

That makes sense, in a really sad way.

I don't know what to think about a photo reverse Othello. Suspect I'd have to see one to see what kind of vibe I got from it.

On the one hand: lots of great parts for Black actors, potential to interpret it as pointing up what an artificial category race is.

On the other hand: is it a form of blackface/way for white actors to usurp the role of Othello, does it pander to a mostly white theatre audience's ability to empathise more readily with white characters?

Hard to call. There is also the power dynamic to consider. The Patrick Stewart version wouldn't have got off the ground without him as driving force behind it: so does it then become a vehicle/gimmick for a wealthy white successful actor who has always fancied playing Othello?

It could be a gimmick.

But it could be a way of saying, look, are you shocked now?

I am a bit uncomfortable that people often do reverse-race versions of things in literature, and that's held to be acceptable and in the nature of a thought experiment. But less so for theatre.

And there seem to be none of these issues with gender-swap casting, do there?

Agree that it would be necessary to see it and sense the atmosphere in the theatre. Could be very positive in that all but one roles are for black actors as oppose to just one but I hadn't considered the idea that an audience might empathise more with a white actor - that wouldn't be a good thing to play to!

Another part of me thinks it's pointlessly pretentious in the same way that I think deep meaning applied to post modern art that looks like it was painted by a 3 year olds is. But if I saw it I might love it. Don't know.

YY. I think it'd be very easy to get very pretentious about it.

Years ago I taught Literature at the Au equivalent of A level. We studied "Much Ado About Nothing" and the supporting film was the one already mentioned, with Keanu Reeves and Denzel Washington.

A (thankfully) small numbers of the students could not get their heads around the fact that their characters were half-bothers so how could one be black, etc.etc. They couldn't see it was acting.

Mind you not too much earlier an Australian journalist asked Sir Ian McKellen how he, as a gay man, could bring authenticity to the role of the grieving Lear as he mourns Cordelia. He dealt with it very graciously, though I'm amazed the editor let it though into print.

basgetti re: 'Miss Saigon' on Broadway, not sure but I think something like that happened. I was lucky enough to see Jonathan Pryce in it, in the original run. Did you see him being interviewed by Mark Lawson on BBC4 the other day (it's still on iPlayer)? I think he was a bit bemused by the whole controversy, and mentioned that the part of the Engineer has never again been played by a non-Asian actor, so probably you're right.

As he said though, the character is actually mixed race (white father) so could actually have looked like J. Pryce in real life!

I saw Mark Rylance play cleopatra in an all male cast at the Globe once. Utterly convincing.

Have also seen all female ensemble performances. I think if the actors and performance are good then it does not matter.

I don't think anyone these days would run Othello with a non-black Othello.

I agree, white actors blacking up has uncomfortable echoes of minstrel shows and as someone mentions up thread LArry Olivier's makeup was a grotesque parody of black features and really made me feel really uncomfortable.

In Othello it isn't just essential that Othello is black, but all the other characters are white. A black Desdemona or Iago wouldn't work as the whole plot hangs on Othello's 'otherness' and being set apart from the society in which he lives.

I think the beauty of theatre is that it really doesn't matter (very different from film and tv in this respect). Theatre is all about suspending disbelief, so as liquid says, you can have men playing female roles, women playing male roles (there's been a lot of this recently) and black people playing roles that would originally have been played by a white person (though if the ethnicity/race isn't specified in the script, I can't see that it it's a very big stretch for it to be played by a black person).

Interestingly, Shylock is often played by non-Jews, and people don't seem to make too much fuss about this.

Funnily enough my dad brought this up the other day. A couple of his friends were going to the pictures to watch a screening of either Porgy and Bess or Showboat (cant remember which as dad was talking about both). He is in his 80's and said that in his younger days actors would "black up", but obviously wouldn't do that now as it is offensive. He wondered how directors/ casting people would cast if there were very few black actors in that company.

We came to the conclusion that unless race was integral to the story ie you would be hard pressed to get away with a reason for having a white Nelson Mandela, then you just cast the best actor for the part.

On a slight tangent, the only disbelief I had with regards to Brannagh's Much Ado was just how bad Keanu Reeves was!

I think a lot of films would be better if the default wasn't white male. I agree sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't, and the times it matters ae few and far between.

I seem to remember the original script for 'made in America' was for a white couple. Having Whoopi Goldberg changed the entire film. Ok not a great film but probably better for Whoopi being in it.

It depends if it's a real life person then yes bit odd to have a white guy playing Mandela

Or period dramas I think it needs to be accurate to the time so for example you would not have mixed raced relationships in the 17th century if there were they would be frowned upon so I would find it odd if a 17th centry person had a black wife but no one batted a eye lid but for compltey nade up thinks like James Bond then who ever is good for the job

you would not have mixed raced relationships in the 17th century if there were they would be frowned upon so I would find it odd if a 17th centry person had a black wife but no one batted a eye lid

Have you heard of the East India Company?

Of course people had mixed race relationships in the seventeenth century.

And while I take outs's point upthread about it being dodgy to paper over historical racism, it doesn't sit right with me when people just assume everyone in the distant past was racist in exactly the same way as in the recent past.

I think that if race is important to the character (eg Othello, Shylock etc), the actor should be of that race. Otherwise I don't think it matters. On film I think I would be jarred if children/family members didn't look 'believably' like each other, but on stage I don't care.

Just to derail the topic slightly, but given that Othello's ethnicity is fairly important to the play (as it's demonstrating his 'otherness'), as someone who is of North African descent, it always annoys me somewhat (OK, a lot!) that they never use an Arab/Berber actor (or at least Arab/Berber looking) to play Othello - who was after all a MOOR, not a sub-Saharan-African man. The only 'authentic' looking portrayal I can think of is Ben Kingsley's (see pic). It's almost as if they think all foreigners look the same....

Good point OnIlkely. Would Shakespeare only have used the term 'Moor' for people from North Africa, then? I suppose historically it is far more likely Othello was North African.

Well, plus 'that handkerchief did an Egyptian to my mother give'.

I saw the Mark Rylance all-male 'As You Like It' at the Globe - it was just wonderful. I also saw the National Theatre's 'Carousel' where Mr Snow was played by Clive Rowe (which caused quite a stir at the time).

I don't think that the colour/ethnicity of an actor should ever come into the equation when casting - I've seen a lot of Shakespeare with a variety of actors 'colour-blind' cast - I'm thinking particularly of Tim Supple's magnificent 'Midsummer Night's Dream' which not only had a hugely varied cast but was played in nine different languages, as everyone spoke their first language...! And yes, it was really easy to follow
Having said that, I too am not sure about a black Iago - but there again, a female Hamlet or Richard II would have seemed really odd a few years ago, but Maxine Peake and Fiona Shaw were astonishing, as was the cast of the all-female Julius Caesar at the Donmar a couple of years ago, so who knows..?

I feel anyone can play Shylock:
A non Jewish person playing a Jewish character is not half so historically loaded as a white man playing a black man.
There is not such a noticeable difference of look between Jews and non Jews.
And Shylock is such a caricature of Jewishness that many Jews (not all of course) wouldn't fancy playing it.

Interesting conversations.
Isn't it likely that drama companies in other countries will cast local actors? So you'll have (for instance) an Indian Romeo and Juliet or a Yoruba playing Hamlet (who was of course, a Dane).