To think they should let us in!?

[akennyg]

Hi there,

We exchanged last week on a family house and have set completion for 8th April. We made a good offer because we love the house (although we might have been able to get a little more off the price as we are cash, chain free buyers).

Annoyingly, had a bit of a run in at negotiation stage with the vendors as they wanted to charge £450 to leave the (bolted on, extremely ordinary) bathroom mirrors. We felt we had paid more than fairly to have the house as it is, and as the mirrors were mentioned as a selling point in the particulars we insisted that they be included.

The vendor agreed, and exchange happened last week. Since then, the agent has told us the lady is really angry and emotional about the mirror situation, as those mirrors were expensive. They are ignoring calls from the agent asking if we can have a quick look at the house now we will be living there. The agent has said she is shocked they are not returning calls.

We sent a really nice email to them two nights ago basically saying how happy and excited we are, sorry the negotiations became difficult, its so hard between middle people and at a stressful time...wishing them well and mentioning it would be really great to be able to see the place, and possibly meet them to make the whole process a bit more human after so much paperwork.

No response has come back.

And now I don't really know what to do. My main concern isnt really going in (although of course we want to) but that if they are being mean about this, what are they going to do when they leave...will we find items broken or stained or things missing that weren't on the particulars but go with the property like the made to measure drawer inserts etc?

Am i being unreasonable expecting or rather hoping to get into the property? I appreciate they are busy but a half hour visit with the agent when they're not in would make all the difference and would be a kind thing to allow. Isn't this the done thing? It's my first time but thats what everyone tells me. And why did they get so mad about bathroom mirrors, which was essentially getting mad about not getting £450 or having to rip mirrors off wall and pay a builder to make good on the holes and mess left behind? Bahhh!

I'm not familiar with the process but am unsure why you'd expect to go in when they still live there?

YABU to expect to get into the property. YANBU to hope, but they have no obligation. No, in my experience it absolutely is not 'the done thing'. It's an exception.

You won't know about damage until you in there....if you've exchanged, you should have buildings insurance in place although of course that won't cover contents.

When selling, I wouldn't allow entry before completion...

Me neither MrsFlannel, but according to others I know who have sold or bought apparently reasonable and agreed visits to see the place and measure/check space for moving in stuff etc is the done thing.

She is being petty. Negotiations are just that... She could have said no and left it on the market. Sadly you can't force them to let you have a look round/measure up. Good luck.

That's interesting! OK so maybe the people I am speaking to have just been lucky.

What does your fixtures and fittings list say?
Everything that is listed on there as staying should stay, and you can go back to your solicitor if it isn't.

But it is totally discretionary to go and see it between exchange and completion. Some vendors will let you, others won't. The nice thing to do would be to let you in for a bit, but if they are in a grump, I can see why they want to wield a tiny bit of power over you.
What do you need to go back for? To measure up?

Sorry - I agree, it's not the done thing at all to ask for entry

I have a two year old and a one year old. I would be extremely annoyed if you were asking for entry. They both go to sleep at 7 at night and nap during the day so I really wouldn't want you there clodhoppering about measuring up. I would seeat as a total imposition

What on earth do you need to to measure now that you can't measure on the day you move in. Surely you're not going to order furniture to turn up in the day you arrive?

They abu. They could have turned your offer down and lost the sale. It's called negotiating.

It's disappointing but you'll have to suck it up. I'd be worried about them damaging things or deliberately not leaving stuff to make things difficult for you, too.
What is the legal comeback in this type of situation?

People are really funny about their houses when it comes to leaving them OP.

We once moved literally over the road. DP was standing chatting to the seller as the removal men were coming out with stuff - and I mean all the fixtures and fittings - and she was going 'oh no, bin that, bin that, bin that' (we have large onstreet bins where we live). DP was - basically she was making the movers go on ladders to get things like lampshades down, only to then bin them!

We'd had a similar situ with her re: curtains - she'd had them specially made and granted they were probably £££ but so not my taste, so we'd declined to purchase them.

I think it's only the "done thing" to be allowed access to measure up/look around again if the property is already empty.

If someone is living there, it's definitely not the done thing.

They are probably a bit upset that they feel the house was worth the agreed price, but the mirrors extra, and now you are demanding access. You may have asked nicely, but the agent has called and emailed, and you have emailed, and she's feeling sensitive anyway...she probably feels bombarded, rightly or wrongly.

Also - agree re: checking the Gigi tires and fittings list. If the mirrors were important, your solicitor should have made sure they were included in that. We had various bots and bobs such as breakfast bar stools that would have been annoying to replace in this house - so made sure our lawyer specified that our offer included them

It's reasonable to have a few visits to the house that you might buy, before actually putting in an offer and going through to exchanging contracts etc. It IS unreasonable to expect to go and visit it again once you've already exchanged contracts! Clearly you are happy with the house or you wouldn't have bought it.

It's also not the done thing to email sellers/buyers without going through your estate agents. That's what the estate agents are for.

However, if the mirrors were stated in the particulars of the house then they are supposed to remain with the house. The seller is BU to expect you to pay more for them. If they weren't supposed to be in the particulars then that's something that they should take up with their estate agents (although I presume they read the particulars beforehand so it's really their own lookout if they OK'd them before putting the house on the market).

IF there is any damage or missing items that WERE on the particulars then you take this up with the estate agents/solicitors but try not to get upset about things that haven't actually happened yet!

We were allowed to go in and measure up for curtains etc before we moved in. Sounds like your vendor is just being awkward due to the mirror thing (baffled at boggo mirrors being £450!)

Seems a bit silly they are upset over mirrors. But that's their prerogative. We all get a bit sentimental about stuff. Dh is very attached to our kettle, as his nan bought it for us before she passed away, for example.

It would be nice if they let you in, but they don't have to. And if she is really annoyed about the mirrors it might be the best thing. Maybe she doesn't really want to move or is feeling a bit upset now the move is so close?

Love the word clodhoppering!
I suppose having paid up the deposit and bought the place just seeing it again would be nice. To get a feel for it. My mum in law sold her house and the buyers came to visit about 5 times with architects and all sorts, which i thought was excessive. People seem to be telling me a visit is normal in real life, but obviously thats not the case!

They are away a lot at their new house, we had been told by the agent a visit when they are there would happen. But that's not from them obviously and however unreasonable we feel they are to be so upset with us at all in the circumstances, there's nothing we can do about it!

When I bought my house the seller let us in to clean (it was filthy), but they had already vacated.

Having moved a lot I find it very hard when new owners want to poke about. My stuff is all half packed and I just don't want to be bothered. I think it's fine to let people in if you're happy with that but there's no obligation.

How kind of them LineRunner (!)
I hate the idea of them resenting us, but i guess that's ridiculous and its a business transaction so I need to grow up.

I think it's normal to ask to pop in for quick visit but I also think it's ok to say no. Our house had tenents in so we didn't ask to have a look around afterwards.

I don't think you can do much about this. She sounds a bit mean and petty. Does she live on her own or is their other, hopefully less shirty, occupants.

Hopefully it's just bluff and everything will be ok when you move in.

Good luck.

Yeah, not one of my happier days, I must admit, OP! I knew the sellers were going to leave it skanky, but we got it at quite a few grand under the asking price, so I figured as we were moving in with a toddler we just needed to get in there and scrub it down.

Swings and roundabouts really.

I think wanting a visit to 'get a feel for it' is totally pointless while their stuff is in, and frankly, that is what a second viewing is for.

We've let people in to measure up for furniture and bring builders along etc, but it is not a right, and if someone just wanted to visit to soak up the ambiance of my half-finished packing, I'm not sure I would be super accommodating...

Well the less fluffy reason for the visit would be to take tons of photos so we can prove if anythings been damaged. There's not much in the house and they have another place in the city they're moving to. Plus we exchanged early (at short notice) to accomodate them, as they were being allowed to do building work on their new place between exchange and completion. Given that we were flexible, paid a good price, and they're not there much i really thought they would be amenable. But they're not and I will have to suck it up!

I'm afraid it isn't like renting where the condition on moving in needs to be spotless and exactly recorded, or buying a new build when you can do a snagging list.

You've got the fixtures and fittings form to show what things you can expect, but you haven't got any recourse if you move in and find walls have been scuffed and carpets are dirty from moving men, so you really do need to come into this on the assumption that the house will need a bloody good clean, and you'll find problems that had been covered up by pictures and furniture.

Obviously if there are walls knocked down, then you need to speak to your solicitor, but between your survey and the F&F form, that is all you can expect to find.

Yabu to expect to go back to the house, they don't have to do this.

If something listed on the fittings and fixtures paperwork isn't in the house on completion then go back to your solicitor.

I'm a lawyer - although not a property lawyer. When we moved in here the sellers hadn't cleaned a thing and had damaged plaster taking down shelves.

We just sighed and called a handyman to fix the bits and bobs. we cleaned all the carpets but would have done that anyway and replaced them quite quickly afterwards

Honestly - I just saw it as a waste of our time and money to incur further legal costs on this and it was cheaper just to get the handyman in

Plus, as was said upthread, this is not a new build. A judge will generally be quite lenient about "accidents" that your seller could probably persuade them had happened in respect of damage. They are only required to take reasonable care of the house.

Plus, I would certainly not let you in to photograph every fixture and fitting and would ask you to leave if you were doing that