to call people out on their public sector pensions when they complain about changes and insist they are self funding as is

[sPJPPp]

Got into a bit of a discussion with someone I don't know that well, anyway she was complaining about her pension changes and kept insisting it was self funding (civil service). I just started a nodathon, but I wanted to tell her it sounds a lot better than my private pension and hers even with paying a bit more money for a few more years is probably still massively unfunded.

Aibu to actually tell her what I think next time?

LMAO at public sector employees being able to claim overtime for the (many) extra hours they work. If only.

I have paid into a "40 year" final salary scheme since I was 18. My retirement age is now 67, and my contributions have been increased. I will have paid in for 49 years and will receive a far worse pension than the one I signed up to. Why shouldn't I complain OP?

A 1% pay rise is at least a pay rise, a lot of private sector workers don't get a pay rise on an annual basis, I went 4 years without a pay rise despite very good annual performance reviews.

Also I don't get free tea or coffee at work and don't feel hard done by! Brian just start a kitty with your colleagues?

I feel sorry for people who are near to pension age and have found the goal posts have moved however new starters should be on new terms. I won't leave my current job as my pension and maternity benefits are good. I contribute 7% to my pension fund.

IsIt okay I take your point about overtime.

Its the massive overhang of 'old' final salary public sector pensions that bother me. They were never funded properly and will carry on being paid well beyond my retirement out of the tax on my pension.

Yet again the boomer generation pulling up the ladder after them is what it is.

Absolutely agree morebeta.

At current interest rates the pot required to pay out a guaranteed index linked £50k per annum pension for 30 years becomes £1.5 million

And in stark contrast my DH's (non-final salary) pension pot which currently stands at just under 1 million and is set to pay out around 12k per annum. Yes folks, you heard that right - 12k.

After 35 years of salary-linked contributions and he will retire (all things being equal) on more than 4 or 5 times the 50k salary you quoted.

To put that into perspective, my MIL is currently subsisting on a NET 40k per annum which is the spousal entitlement to my late FILs final salary pension, and while he had a good salary he never earned anything like as much as his son does.

Ebear you are right.

When you take a job you look at the whole package, I worked in public sector from 1970s, it was low paid compared to private sector but I loved it and now I have my pension. You make choices.

There is a massive range of public sector pensions. Anyone who talks about them as if there is just one public sector pension is talking in tabloid headlines.
A reasonable pension was offered as part of the remuneration package to public sector employees. I don't think any of them should have to apologise for it. And anyone complaining about them had the choice to follow a career employed by the public. Why didn't of you who are complaining about the public sector pensions enter public service?
In the sector I know about employees were very very strongly encouraged to sign up for their pension, very often in their late teens and early twenties without being provided with any information about the scheme. None. They were made promises that have now been broken. These employees will now have to make higher pension contributions, and they weren't low in the first place. They will have to work considerably longer in a potentially dangerous, physical job. The original length of service historically reflected the difficult nature of the job.

Their reward for paying more and working longer is a smaller pension.

I think they have good reason to be angry. To top that off if they change their career before the end of their service they will not be allowed access to their pension until state pension age. Who knows what that will be in the future?

The employees I am talking about will be paying 14% of their income into their pensions.

MoreBeta and Don't - you might have missed my explanation that the current reforms are apparently designed to ensure that current public sector employees - and not the general taxpayer - will continue to fund the public sector pensions in payment via their current pension contributions. This is what I have been told by my employer/pension scheme provider.

So if anybody has a right to be disgruntled by the overhang of old final salary public sector pensions, I think it would be the current public sector employees who are covering them through increasing pension contributions, rather than the taxpayer who is being protected from any rise in costs.

Don'tdrink absolutely. The figure quoted for 50k a year by our actuary friend was closer to 2 million. Multiply that by every single NHS doctor in the pension scheme

Terms and conditions change all the time - that's life unfortunately. Reform was long overdue.

I am also laughing at the idea of "business travel" as a perk! Never been too keen on plane food or joyless, sterile hotels close to airports, personally.

Oh FFS, why are public sector workers fixated on coffee?! Seriously how much does it cost to buy a jar of coffee?!

I'd gladly swap the vile vending machine tea and coffee and all my bonuses forever for the security a final salary pension.

I get really fucked off with people complaining about their public sector pensions. People just do not seem to grasp what an amazing benefit it is even with the changes or how much of their salary they would have to pay into a DC scheme to get similar benefits.

Oh and this year end I've been working evenings and weekends to get the work done for no extra pay. Friend in the public sector has been doing the same and I was empathising except she let slip that she gets double time on a Sunday!!

YABVVVU and vile to be so jealous when you don't know sacrifices people have made. FYI I have never worked in PS or no anyone who does, but having seen the work that the staff who care for my nephew on his frequent trips to hospital, I don't begrudge them a penny of their pensions. Many in the private sector would not do what they have to for the money. It astounds me that people even think like you do op. How do you have the time to think about other peoples' pensions ect.?

Reform affecting new recruits joining new schemes is one thing. Reform affecting people decades into their career & pension contributions is pretty harsh.

As others have said, lumping together all private sector employees against all public sector employees is very uninformed. If I had remained in my private sector job with a huge company for life, I would have had a far better pension than my DHs public sector pension.

In addition, his 'career average' scheme will in no way reflect his actual average earnings because it is based on his basic salary career salary. His basic salary is pitifully low for the job he has, probably 20k less than in the private sector, but then, yes, he gets overtime, antisocial hours allowance etc, despite being on what they call one of their 'professional' jobs and having a lot of responsibility. Presumably the reason for him being able to claim overtime is because that will all be excluded when it comes to the pension calculations, because that isn't his salary, it's an additional payment. Moreover, he has worked there many years and his predicted pension is now much less, with greater employee contributions, than what he signed up to. He can't travel back in time and take a private sector job that paid more, and make his own pension arrangements with his eyes open. He can of course now choose to move to the private sector if he wishes, but the prime years for putting money away for your pension are when you are young, because it has got 40 years to be invested and earn some money. That is the bit that is unfair. If tomorrow it were to be announced that there were to more 'public sector' pensions from now on for new entrants, that would be fine, because anyone taking the job would be aware from the start. It is the people who are in their 40s and 50s now who stand to lose most and they can't time travel and take a different path. That is why they find it so unfair.

Trixy, suspect most public sector workers would also swoon over the idea of a final salary pension.

I agree entirely that we all have had the option of looking at a public sector career but the reality is that it is annoying when people moan about their public sector pensions. Our local authority pays a 27 percent contribution to the pensions of their employees in the local government pension scheme. 27 percent!! That's incredibly high and incredibly valuable. So yes the salaries might be slightly lower in some areas but that 27 percent is more than making up for it!

Those pensions are not something anyone should ever moan about.

dontdrink I would guess around 25k a year. It's shocking how little you get with an annuity.

My pension is changing from to the new civil service one which will represent a big loss for me especially as I'm a part-time worker. What really annoys me is that a was one of the last final salary joiners with a pension age of 60. I knew there was no way I or anyone else of my age would retire at 60 but I still had to pay for this. Now the age is 68 but I can't retire at 60 on half a pension so I will have to 'loose' that money as I work to 68

The career average switch makes very little difference to those in "normal jobs". Yes if you are employed in a very senior role it might bring the pension down a little (assuming you worked your way up through the ranks) but for the vast majority their role is sitting at a particular grade and there won't be much fluctuation once they're at the top of the grade.

Atticusclaw have you seen the comments about the diverse pension schemes in the public sector? What happens at your local council is not true for every other scheme.

I know, I did say I was talking about the local government pension scheme.

Why the whole private vs public sector debate again?

Why are people so insistent on a race to the bottom?

Why aren't people wondering where the workers' rights and protections are in the private sector. And public sector for that matter?

Why is it OK for private sector bosses to completely screw over the lower paid while they continue with their own final salary schemes?

Why is OK to have zero hour contracts which fuck people over?

Why is it OK to pay such low wages such that the state has to subsidise business via tax credits and housing benefit? If wages weren't so low we wouldn't need them to cover basic living costs?

Why do people roll over, let private sector bosses screw them over and be distracted with public vs private sector debates?

I'm forever astounded by this.

Maybe you should have said it's annoying when people employed by your local council moan?

People with public sector pensions often haven't a clue how valuable they are. Particularly the policemen I met who were allowed to retire at 50. (A pension at 50 is hugely more valuable than one at 65.)

Another aspect of some worker's financial cluelessness is they think they've funded their pension by a deduction of the order of 5%-15% from their salary. It takes much more than that to fund a decent pension. Either their employer is also making contributions, if the scheme is funded, or otherwise the taxpayer is picking up the tab.

(Google found a document on NHS pension scheme for me. For someone in DW and I income bracket, the total funding is about 28%, half from the employer.)

Efferlunt you can halve that and then take some more off.

Atticus I joined the LGPS before the reforms started and transferred my private final salary pension in on advice. I have been part time for most of my time there due to unexpected events. I will be affected by both the average salary change and the extra 8 years in the retirement age. Not to mention the increased contributions.
So it feels very much like I have been diddled out of my pension. I could earn nearly twice my fte in private and my plan was always to go back but if I leave my public job ALL of my pension will be held until 68.

Seriously dontdrink? That sucks.