To want to start a "bad behaviour" chart?

[HandMini]

My nearly 4 yo will not stay in bed in the evening. He bounds up multiple times for water/the loo/too hot/too cold/my tummy hurts etc etc etc.

I am getting thoroughly irritated by it.

We did try "you get a sticker if you go to bed properly and dont get up" but it sort of waned because in the morning when I handed out the sticker he'd pretty much forgotten whether or not he'd been a pain the night before. I think he still has a need for instant punishment / instant reward.

So last night, as I got the tenth visit of the evening I wondered if It would be terrible parenting to put a mark on a sheet every time he gets up and say "look, you got out of bed 8 times last night, are you going to do better tonight" sort of thing...

Anyway, any thoughts on this gratefully received.

Have you tried supernannys bedtime method?

Surely then, he would still not relate it to his behavior the night before?

What's his bed time routine and how do you deal with it when he gets up?

I would say a 'you got up 8 times last night can you do better/beat that score etc' isn't a bad behaviour chart.

You could sell it to him as a challenge or a competition with himself.

I'm guessing you've gone through any reasons he is getting up so often.

Have you tried Velcro and ropes?

I'm not sure I'd do that as tomorrow night if he only gets up 7 times it's still a lot.

What so you do when he gets up?

Sorry - what do you do when he gets up? Do you do whatever he asks?

I'd be inclined to just tell him to get back into bed.

Funnily enough I was going to post something similar. We've never really done reward charts, don't do naughty steps and have only dabbled with rapid return.

Our problem is that DS (4) will stay in bed but piss about.

I am attempting to 'gentle parent' but not sure where rewards fit into this. Some people have suggested a great big shiny new toy so long as he stays in bed for X amount of days but then what happens when he gets the toy?

I would give him 10 good points. Each time he comes down, a good point gets removed. If he stays at ten, in the morning he can have a treat. If he gets one removed he has a chance to earn it back tomorrow eve.

i like the velcro and ropes suggestion.

nilbyname how could he earn it back, by getting up a negative amount of times?
but a serious answer would be nice please.

I do the "rapid return" which I think is the same as supernanny. No talking, no eye contact, walk him firmly back to bed, pull cover up, leave. Any thoughts on how to do it differently?

Kitty - I like your spin on it!

Butterfly - considering it...maybe elastic!

I'm with butterfly2015

here's what I got when I searched for gentle ways...

Could you do a sort of 'marbles in a jar'
I don't have children that age but I wonder if you could preempt him coming down by popping up, telling him well done for being in bed and putting a marble in the jar. A full jar could earn a treat.
It might not save the ups and downs in short term but it could start keeping him in bed so he falls asleep sooner.
You could then make how often you go up less and then start giving 2 marbles for no get ups etc.

Ok, I'd make him go up by himself if you know there's nothing wrong with him.

Is he worried about something or just being a pain in the bum

The problem, I find, with any kind of reward chart / treat system, is that you cant keep it up for ever and it can easily become a point of manipulation.

How long have you persisted, consistently, with rapid return?

Make him work towards something. If he gets 20 stickers he gets to choose a toy (for example). He can see the stickers building up as you go.

DuelingFanjo I only use this method when I want to change a habit. 3 weeks of not pissing about at bedtime will be long enough to make that change, they forget they've ever pissed about.

I'm also wondering what his bedtime routine is prior to lights-out? And what time he goes to bed?

You do have to be brutal about the no stickers nights though. No discussion, no negotiation, just don't give the sticker I. The morning.

I've two boys quite close in age so bedtime was a nightmare for a while as there was a lot of messing and egging on. I bought a load of tat from pound shop and told them they could do a lucky dip when they had 3 stars. It worked very well as they could see the prize. Once they got a bit better, I chaned it to 5 stars and no they are both brill going.

How long have you persisted, consistently, with rapid return?. Weeks. And I'm not kidding it's my second child and I'm not patient in the evenings so this has always been my response when I don't get impatient and snap

Dueling - thanks for the link. I like some of these and I think the main food for thought (from the website and this thread) is that maybe something's worrying him. I'll try and find a good time to talk (in as much as 4 year olds will).

I loved this quote from the site Dueling linked to - "Anyone who thinks the art of conversation is dead ought to tell a child to go to bed."

Yup, the stickers for, say, three weeks then a toy is a better idea than a "black mark" chart.

We do a bedtime routine starting at about 6.15 which is bath, pjs, reading and then a book and cuddle and chat in bed. This usually takes 45 mins so I am to be leaving the room about 7ish. He gets up at 6/6.30 in the morn which is fine.

I don't get home from work till 6 so I would struggle to make bedtime routine longer (unless bedtime pushes later).

Earn it back the next day!

Last night we offered DS the option of 2 weeks of going to bed with no fuss = 14 marbles in a jar = a remote control snake.

I'll keep you updated on our progress.

I never wanted to do this kind of thing but he seems to quite like this kind of reward scheme stuff.

Sticker chart to collect stickers for.....you need a prize. No point in just giving stickers without a prize. My dd got a book for every 7 stickers (not necessarily in a row). worked a treat.