... to not understand the "Right to Buy" thing???

[MillieV]

OK. Up and down the country, and here on MN, there is talk about councils not having enough council stock, that there should be more, and we all blame it on Margaret Thatcher. But why is it that now, politicians want to follow in Thatcher's footsteps yet again?!?

One article here

Do these properties come with covenants, i.e. they can only be sold on by the original buyer to those who are also in council/social housing, and continue to be at a discount? This would be fair. However, I fear the housing stock may just be sold on at market value 5 years down the line...

Where are the affordable new homes to be built, to be of any use?

i don't think the cities are jam packed. Lots of parts of London, even in expensive area have boarded of warehouses.

there are prisons all over London.

brtiain has around 26million homes - they take up about 2% of the land. There is plenty of space available. We build about 100,000 new homes per year - so that's an increase of about 0.4% annually.

most people have no idea how little of Britain has been developed

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18623096

Actually the figure of 2% has been discredited. It only counts the area occupied by bricks, not gardens and roads connecting them or the schools, hospitals etc that are needed to service every new development.
Yes we can build on fields far away from where the employment is - if the locals don't block planning permission. But the demand is always for homes in and near the cities.

You won't find many boarded up warehouses in London now. Most of them were in Docklands and have already been converted to offices or 'executive apartments'. Builders have been searching out vacant sites for decades and the few still left are empty for very practical reasons.

Prisons - yes that would provide some space but then you have to pay not only for the housing but for replacement prisons as well. Double the cost.

I'd love to see new homes built in the quantities needed, but it is not quite as easy as demanding it and printing money.

I know it's not easy Sallying - it's a feature of my job that any solutions aren't easy to come by!
But try we must because a housing crisis we do have.

You won't find many boarded up warehouses in London now.

I go by them daily. not saying that this the cure all for the housing problems, but they are around for sure.

Prisons - yes that would provide some space but then you have to pay not only for the housing but for replacement prisons as well. Double the cost.

there are prisons in islington where 2 bed flats next to the prison go for 600 grand. there has been talk of making "super jails" in the outskirts for years and closing down some of the older jails as they are decrepit and really expensive to maintain. Some of these old jails have been described as "medieval".

Actually the figure of 2% has been discredited.

the "built on" figure is around 5% i think.

Sallying
I don't agree that building flats don't work simply because it didn't work in the 60s. I seriously don't understand why people would EVER build 2-bed houses, when you can build lots of 2-bed flats instead. It's ludicrous.

The UK currently only has around 18% of the population living in flats. The rest live in houses.

Compare that with Germany (62%), Switzerland (66%), Sweden (51%), etc. where the majority of the population live in flats.

I chose the above countries specifically because these are countries that are reasonably well-off (Germany is the economic power house of Europe), and people make do with flats.

What makes Brits so special that they can't live in flats?!?

EMS23
As much as you don't like the Tories, Labour are just as bad in a different way. I can seriously see the UK crumbling under that one party... they spend, spend, spend - without knowing where the money should come from. Ed Miliband is looking towards France... which isn't great, considering the French system does not work.

MillieV - yes perhaps my political persuasion is irrelevant in this thread. My main point to be made here is about the RTB being a terrible policy and the fact we need to build lots more houses. And I stand by both of those regardless of which party brought it in and which party comes next.

I seriously don't understand why people would EVER build 2-bed houses, when you can build lots of 2-bed flats instead. It's ludicrous.

Flats are not suitable for everyone, particularly if they are not ground floor (and only so many can be ground floor and fully accessible).
Some people need a garden more than others- parent with a severely disabled child who cannot access the local park isn't going to want to be cooped up in a flat unable to get their child outside to play.

Superexcited

Again - what makes the Brits so special then, versus the Germans, Swiss, etc. where over half the population is perfectly capable of living in flats without a garden?

I didn't say we are special. Maybe we just have different expectations to other Europeans. Is there something wrong with wanting a garden or needing accessible accommodation?
I wouldn't live in a flat if I had the choice and don't you think people deserve some choice over their accommodation which they pay for each month?

I am currently hosting a Spanish exchange student. He lives in a flat in a city with his parents. Like many Spanish middle class professionals they also own a holiday apartment on the coast Different countries have different housing markets.

Germany still has rent controls and secure tenancies in many cases so young families are more likely to rent because they do not face rental inflation or the threat of being given notice to move out by the landlord.

The question of why English people (Scots traditionally live in flats) are so keen on gardens has been said to be because England has a higher population density than most of Europe so they feel more of a need for a private outside space to compensate for more sharing of out door space.

Germany still has rent controls and secure tenancies in many cases so young families are more likely to rent because they do not face rental inflation or the threat of being given notice to move out by the landlord.

not a bad idea (tenure in tenancy).

The question of why English people (Scots traditionally live in flats) are so keen on gardens has been said to be because England has a higher population density than most of Europe so they feel more of a need for a private outside space to compensate for more sharing of out door space.

that seems to be an odd explanation. We have higher density so expect more personal space?

The Netherlands is more dense. England apparently has the smallest living spaces in Europe.

Surely social housing should be for those with no/very low income and they should have to leave once they earn enough? It shouldn't be handed out to everyone who just wants to live cheaply.

And it certainly shouldn't be sold or otherwise there will be no more social housing! Buying a house is not a right. I can't afford to, it doesn't bother me. I rent and it's perfectly fine.

Everyone deserves a home.
Somebody has to do the low income jobs.
Private renting in this country is shit when families can be given 2 months notice to move away from schools , friends and family.

I agree if the private rent sector was controlled with rents capped and longer leases available it would help with the shortage of social housings.

Private renting in this country is shit when families can be given 2 months notice to move away from schools , friends and family.

private renting in this country is so bad, there is so much room for improvement. It would help both the rental and buying market enormously. it seems to me there is so little political pressure for this. People want more RTB, more housing benefit, more council houses, when fixing private renting will go a long way.

Completely agree with you simple.
My 9 year old has lived in 5 houses.
Luckily I've managed to find homes near to the school but the stress for it is awful.
This is why I am so looking forward to moving into social housing .
For me it's the security.

I would happily live in a well planned flat if it meant it was mine for life.
Getting a shitty yard with my rented terrace is not worth the insecurity abs crushing rent.
Flats are the solution and if you don't agree with it then you are a bit spoilt for choice.

Flats are the solution and if you don't agree with it then you are a bit spoilt for choice.

Really? Wanting a bit of space where you don't live with somebody beneath you, above you and on both sides of the walls is being spoilt for choice? Some people prefer flats, some don't. Some people cannot live in the majority of flats for accessibility reasons I dint think that makes somebody spoilt for choice. We live in a developed country where people should be able to have some choice.
I started off living in a terraced house with a yard but it was still preferable to me than living in a one bed council flat. Your choice would be to live in a spacious well maintained flat, does that make you spoiled for choice?

I could easily say that the China model of people living in cages and in bunkers could solve our housing problem and eradicate homelessness but not many people would want to live in one of those. Nor would people want to live in the tenement style developments that are found in Americas poorer areas.
This is the UK and people don't have to follow the housing models that other countries have. A solution can be found without cramming people into tower blocks with no outdoor space if it isn't what the tenants want.

Thre is a lot to be said for the German or Spanish models where lots of people privately rent but have secured tenancies but those tenancies also come with the expectation that the resident is responsible for all maintenance whilst he lives in the property, there is no phoning up the landlord to fix a leak or a broken boiler or a damp patch. Both landlords and tenants have different responsibilities in those countries. How many tenants in this country would be up in arms if the boiler broke and they landlord told them to fix it themselves? How many of them would complain that it isn't their responsibility and that they don't have the money?

Here is one solution to solving the housing shortage in some areas: bring empty homes back into use.

england.shelter.org.uk/campaigns/why_we_campaign/the_housing_crisis/building_more_homes/empty_homes

I also think we should have hefty charges for overseas property investors and put the income raised into building affordable homes. I also think we should have very hefty annual charges for 2nd homes.

Superexcited

For goodness sake. I think we can both agree that Germany is a "developed country" - more so than the UK (which really is more like a developing country in terms of structure by the way). IN FACT, it's the economic powerhouse of Europe. We are NOT talking about China.

Obviously, for over half the Germans (including people who do NOT get anything provided for by the state)... a flat is perfectly sufficient.

If you want "choice", then, I'm sorry... you should pay for that "choice", and not the tax payers.

Also, Germany trumps the UK in terms of accessibility- they have various laws for this. Hence, you will find every tram/subway station accessible in ways that doesn't hold true for the UK.

I am all for rent control of the private sector and regulation. That would deter a lot of cowboy landlords.

Superexcited

My dad is a landlord in Germany. He recently paid for a new boiler that cost a lot of money. He has to fix leaks and damp patches. It all tax deductible and you save much of the money you get in rent because of this rather than spend it as though your properties were nothing but a money tree (which seems to be what happens in the UK).

Rebrand flats is 'apartments'