People accused of sex crimes shouldn't be given anonymity

[GallicGarlic]

I am positively astonished that, as they face sex crime allegations, MPs say sex crime suspects deserve anonymity.

This will mean no e-fit pictures of suspects, no CCTV releases, no calls for other victims to come forward. AIBU to think this is jolly convenient for serial perpetrators? And to ask you to sign a petition?

What about other serious crimes, allbymyself?

You see the idea that due to our press, anonymity should be given to all people accused, up to whatever point, has credence. I'd be happy to discuss the pros and cons of that.

The suggestion that this provision only be applied to sex crimes is predicated in an incorrect and extremely damaging belief that women and children routinely lie about it. Granting this wish sets the efforts to get police, the authorities, society etc to treat people properly when they say they have been the victim of a sex crime back decades, as it makes it official the idea that yes we need this because women and children are liars.

Vast numbers of victims have already failed to get justice because they weren't believed, to actively worsen this situation seems terribly callous, almost spiteful really.

Allbymyselfagain but why pick on a crime that is most often perpetrated by men, where the victims are most often women and children? Why is that different? It's because so many people think women and children are liars. It's because so many people believe that false rape accusations are a bigger problem than the lack of justice for rape victim.

seems terribly callous, almost spiteful really - And arse-covering for the MPs who'll vote on it.

They've already refused the proposal for the Official Secrets Act to be lifted where child sex abuse investigations are concerned.

So that's the most credible witnesses - police and social services officers - conveniently silenced.

This next legal alteration will silence victims and witnesses.

YY I'm sure this will go through just in time for the police to get going with the powerful people / paedophilia investigations.

And people are all hooray super ra yay about it

I might not have signed a year ago but if the Ched Evans case has taught us anything, it's that there is very little stigma around being a rapist.

Gallic, it doesn't surprise me, that they want to put this in place on the verge of a mass outing of senior public figs who are going to be named in sex allegations and pedo rings.

pombears that is the most disgusting thing I have ever heard and I am now sat here sobbing that someone can be so small minded.

Allbymyselfagain What more disgusting, than that child being sexually abused? but then's about right isn't it. You've probably heard hundreds of stories of abuse from normal media but me saying he was probably guilty is the worst you ever heard.

Sorry, you're sobbing, but other than a judge throwing out a case, after CPs clearly thought he was guilty, how can you be sure he wasn't? A judge just recently accused a child of grooming her teacher, who had been abusing her.

pilchard with the exception of murderers I don't think i could name a single person in my area who is being investigated for a crime. The press focusses on sex crimes purely because of their shock factor. In fact three men were stabbed in town last Saturday, a woman was arrested. No mention of her name in the papers. So she has anonymity. I think because rape is so hard to prove against other crimes often coming down to "he said, she said" that it should be treated differently.

They are only talking of anonymity before CHARGE not before CONVICTION. In deciding whether or not to charge other allegations are irrelevant. If the CPS charge then the name would be released and if others come forward, so be it. Sounds fair and workable to me.

Andrew but why this crime? Why is this different? If it were all crimes, fair enough, but it isn't. It is perpetuating a myth that false accusations of rape happen all the time, it's the system confirming that women and children can't be trusted. Victims of these crimes have a bad enough time as it is, why are people singling this crime out for special treatment?

Pombears - that same judge (when she was a barrister) defended the man I know who was convicted of rape, and used arguments against the victim that I thought were not allowed anymore. I think she should be disbarred.

hooty women can also be rapists and child abusers. Im not saying false rate accusations are a bigger problem. BUT they are a problem and they can be just as damaging to the victim as rape can.

If you are raped there will be sympathy shown by normal people to you. You won't lose your family or your job. You won't have your kids taken away from you. you won't be hounded by vigilantes who believe (like some ridulculous people on here) that there's no smoke without fire.

Rape victims deserve justice for what happened and as I said if the concept of consent was better understood maybe there would be more justice. How many people blamed Ched Evans victim for the way she was dressed, and that she was drunk, and that she went back to a hotel room. That's what needs to change in our society for rape victims to get justice. The understanding that I could go out tomorrow, naked and blind drunk and that still does not give a man a right to sleep with me.

You seem to have missed my posts asking what you found wishy-washy

Sorry about that. As you've given an explanation, presumably you can already see why someone would find it wishy washy.

This proposal would only really benefit the rich and famous because with the exception of the odd high profile mystery the rape of ordinary people by ordinary people is just not considered newsworthy is it? The damage everyone is going on about would happen by neighbourhood hearsay - so what are you going to do are we all going to be gagged all the time? I oppose the change proposed. This is partly because of my experience where there is a very serious sex offender in the family (yes convicted and the evidence was very sound) and yet there are still people in the family who swear blind that he is innocent. This might or might not be due to the fact that some of these people have taken cheap loans off the man.

Allbymyself, did you see the infograph that was linked to earlier? That shows the magnitude of the victims who don't get justice compared to those falsely accused.

Giving the accused anonymity quite simply plays into the hands of the abusers, who already are holding enough cards in the legal system.

Pom because I know he wasn't. He was never even alone with her! There was never a window of opportunity for him to abuse her apart from the one time she walked into the bathroom whilst he was having a pee. He yelled and the dad came and removed her from the room. Max 30 seconds alone..... But she said he had touched her in a car, by a pond after feeding the ducks. He had never even taken her out in a car apart from with the whole family on a trip to the shops.

The poor child was being abused and as I said has now thankfully been removed from the family home BUT your opinion is as he was investigated and held on bail he must be guilty. That's why im upset. How many others in our lives at the time still think that of him? Your attitude is the reason these people need anonymity. If he lived near you and you found out he was on bail for child abuse would you treat him like normal until/if he was found guilty. Or would you be up there with the scum trying to smash his door down and string him up?

And yes I read the case of the judge and the schoolgirl and I agree that is very very wrong. That judge is fool and needs investigating.

HootyMcTooty I entirely agree - it should apply to all alleged offences.

RC1234 No matter what the case, no matter what the evidence, there will always be somebody who does not believe it. That's human nature.

"If you are raped there will be sympathy shown by normal people to you"

Um. You'd hope so wouldn't you but in real life this is often not what happens at all.

Anyone who says YES this should apply to this crime and this crime only, is just, I don't understand their perspective at all, and I don't think I ever will.

Unfortunately despite having an innocent until proven guilty system, mud sticks and people will always have doubts even if you were acquitted of a sex crime. You do deserve anonymity I think.

I have changed my mind and signing it now.

Making the accused name public once the police and CPS have reviewed the case seems a sensible compromise.

I doubt that the police and CPS would pursue a case to the point of charging someone where there was insufficient evidence from the initial accuser. If the initial accuser provides credible evidence and the accused name is made public and further accusers then come forward with credible evidence then it seems to me that it would be doubly convincing to a jury.

I might not have signed a year ago but if the Ched Evans case has taught us anything, it's that there is very little stigma around being a rapist.

He is a rapist but not everyone else who's accused is.

I'd prefer to spend my time worrying about the treatment of victims and general lack of understanding around consent than the tiny minority of people who are falsely accused

Whereas I agree that treatment of victims should be vastly improved, and women and men should be better educated about consent, western judicial systems are mostly concerned with not convicting someone who didn't actually commit a crime. Hence proving "beyond reasonable doubt" and the onus of the proof being on the prosecution.

How would you feel if you had been falsely accused of threatening someone based on their testimony, and ended up in jail? Would you be happy to be there knowing that this way most people who do threaten others do end up in jail as well? Even if you were the only falsely accused among hundreds of those who weren't?

I might not have signed a year ago but if the Ched Evans case has taught us anything, it's that there is very little stigma around being a rapist

i don't think most people regard Ched Evan's crime as being a typical rape !!

What is a typical rape AliceMcGee?