To ask- what do you think is actually happening when you hear "they are privatising the NHS"

[Arelen]

I keep seeing memes and petitions posted by friends who are concerned about privatisation of the NHS, or that the NHS is being sold off.
I wonder what people imagine is happening when they see or post these messages?

I didn't realise I was being stalked

I work for a private company that provides services to the NHS. It saves them a great deal of money, is working well and the elderly people prefer being with us to being in hospital

mariamin that may be true from your perspective and your service, it is not universally true. Generally it has been proven that private provision of services and competition drive down costs, drive innovation and improve things.

caroldecker, source of this within the NHS please.

random source of what?

The source of your assertion

The evidence, if you prefer.

To me you've only got to look at the utter calamity that is social care to see how badly privatisation could affect health care in the NHS.

Companies under cutting each other's prices and then expecting front line staff to take a pay cut by paying them less than minimum wage and only doing 15 minute appointments with no travel time included...

Yes. Social care in Council run homes tends to be of a much higher quality, than equivalent private care homes. Private care homes tend to better at the superficial things such as the furnishings and decor, and far worse at the actual human care.

random if you are referring to better services provided by private companies, I point to new drugs, disposable surgical instuments, keyhole surgery, heart transplants off the top of my head. None of these were developed by the NHS.

caroldecker Well of course heart transplants weren't 'developed' by the NHS - the first one was done in South Africa! And the first keyhole surgery in Germany and Sweden. Your statement actually proves nothing

My comment states that most developments in surgical techniques come from countries with competing hospitals and not state run monoliths. Change includes risk and where there is no benefit in taking a risk, there is no change, hence state run monopolies in all industries stagnate and do not offer the best to customers.
It is possible for us just to sit and wait for the rest of the world to make changes and copy them, but it is not the most efficient route.

Yes social care is a disaster. That worries me.

The whole idea of entrusting something so important to companies whose motivation is profit is scary, TBH. Even if it is still free at the point of use and accessible to all, it doesn't really make sense for it to be privatised.

caroldecker - That only works where there is a profit to be made. Some of the most efficient healthcare systems in the world invest far more in preventative healthcare. There is no profit to be made from this, but it achieves far better outcomes in terms of the health of the population.

£900 per week for a place in a care home in London.
The care is basic to say the least.
Carers earn minimum wage in the majority of care homes.

£200 of that fee (from a self funding resident) goes to subsidise the non funders for who the state pays £500 per week.

Much of the rest goes into the pockets of the owners.

Care homes are big business and very profitable.

mariamin Of course there is profit in preventative healthcare in an insurance based system. The insurance companies pay for prevention as cheaper than curing, so either make more money or can compete by offering lower premiums

caroldecker - The US has a very poor record of preventative healthcare. I have seen in action how a genetic family illness has been treated with preventative care in Britain, versus family in the US. Trust me, their insurance will not pay for many routine preventative medications that family in Britain receive. And I have seen the vast differences in terms of health in my own family.

Paying for preventative medication over decades can cost more than letting people die young.

And now we read in the paper (Observer) today that the private companies eyeing up the rich NHS pickings are laundering their proceeds through complex company structures and tax havens, and claiming (mostly anyway) that they are not making any profit at all.