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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think this behaviour from a 5 year old needs discipline/punishment?

21 replies

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 18:47

DD is 5. She has (with her younger cousin) just eaten an entire box of chocolates which she and DS gave me for mother's day. Definitely knew they belonged to me, definitely knew she should ask. She honestly doesn't seem to care much. DSis doesn't think I should do anything in case I give her food issues. But to me this isn't about food - it's about taking what's not hers when she knows it's wrong.

This needs a consequence, right?

OP posts:

MsHighwater · 20/03/2015 18:48

Of course. Is your dsis the mother of the cousin and hoping her dc can evade punishment, too?

DidoTheDodo · 20/03/2015 18:49

Agreed. You need to make it clear to her what was wrong with her behaviour, as you've described above.

seriouslypeedoff · 20/03/2015 18:52

Yanbu. Its not about food, its about her thinking she can take what she wants just because. Your dsis probably doesn't want to feel she had to discipline her child.

CrohnicallyInflexible · 20/03/2015 18:52

Does she get pocket money/regular privileges such as sweets at the weekend/stash of chocolate saved from Christmas/pudding after dinner? If so, I would get her to replace what she has taken by giving something up of her own to replace what she took. There doesn't seem much point to an arbitrary punishment like no TV for a 5 year old, she won't remember what it was for, but I feel there should be some sort of natural consequences.

BertieBotts · 20/03/2015 18:54

Yes and I agree it's not about food, it's about taking somebody else's belongings.

With a younger cousin, though - I think part of it might be poor impulse control. Five year olds are beginning to get control over their impulses but it isn't great at the best of times. Three and four year olds don't really have impulse control at all. Think about it - she knew the chocolates were there, she perhaps really really wanted one, wouldn't have taken one on her own but in conjunction with a little one egging her on the temptation was too much and she was unable to resist it. Then, of course, with all of them in front of them, what five year old or younger says "I think I've had enough now. Let's leave the rest for somebody else."

I would make the sanction pretty token but make sure you have a talk with her about not taking what isn't hers, and if it happens again then come down harder - I would not go in all guns blazing when it was probably at least 50% age/development related.

Original poster

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 18:55

Thank you all. Feel clearer now. I'm a bit upset about the sneakiness and her lack of remorse (obviously the chocs per se don't bother me).
I'm not letting them stay up late like their siblings because "they haven't proved to me that their behaviour can be trusted" (and we've talked about the specifics of what was wrong - not asking, taking something that wasn't theirs, etc.). They still don't seem to really care, though.
DS is upset though because he gave them to me too

Thanks again.

OP posts:

BertieBotts · 20/03/2015 18:55

Oh yes I agree that getting her to replace it somehow would be much better than losing something else.

If the other child was younger then that's up to your DSis to decide - yes your DD should have been responsible, but she is only five and it's a pretty big ask. Perhaps she'd seen you offering chocolates to visitors and thought it would be a nice thing to do and got carried away.

Original poster

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 18:57

No she doesn't get pocket money yet.
I don't know how you can "make" a child feel sorry for something when they clearly don't give a monkeys...

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Original poster

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 18:59

Bertie your posts have made me feel more understanding of it and I will try not to be too horrible to them/expect too much. Thank you.

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Original poster

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 19:00

And actually, I'd left them upstairs in the room they were playing in (though DD was absolutely clear that they were mine), so I'm probably partly to blame, definitely where her cousin is concerned.

Sorry to go on about it, and thanks again. Sort of gets to me, this, but not sure why....

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BertieBotts · 20/03/2015 19:03

It sounds like you handled it fine and the sanction is fair. Reassure DS that it's the thought that counts and that you will get yourself some more chocolate.

I think the remorse thing is tricky - IMO it's quite an adult reaction, in their eyes they either didn't know it was wrong or they knew it was wrong but their motivation of "I want it" was stronger than the wrong feeling. I don't think you can induce guilt by punishing, although of course you can induce fear of future punishment which may make them think twice. But really imagine a situation where you didn't know a rule, somebody tells you the rule, you don't usually think "Oh my god how terrible, I feel awful!" but you think "Oh, oops. Better avoid that in future then, thanks for the info." The latter is probably closer to how a small child understands rules - just because this one was, to an adult, emotive, it's quite abstract for them to understand in that way.

I would maybe speak to the 5yo separately another time, not in a telling off kind of way, but neutrally about things belonging to people, what that means and how it's not nice to go and get your things and find them gone. There are probably some books/episodes of TV programmes aimed at her age with this kind of message so I'd look out for them and just sort of keep in mind that it's an issue she obviously hasn't really understood yet and try to take the opportunity to discuss it if/when it comes up.

OutragedFromLeeds · 20/03/2015 19:12

Definitely needs a consequence. Five is absolutely old enough to know it was wrong and old enough to understand that actions have consequences.

Original poster

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 19:13

That makes a lot of sense, Bertie. I will definitely follow your advice about the chat when things are quieter.

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GoogleyEyes · 20/03/2015 19:18

Can you perhaps compare it to you eating the sweets and cake out of a party bag that your dd was given? It's something she would be able to relate to.

So, you could ask her how she would feel if she left a party bag in the kitchen and you ate all the sweets from it, and go from there. If she says cross, then she understands what is allowed. If she she says she wouldn't mind, you would need to have a conversation about why other people do mind that sort of thing.

I would also not allow chocolate for a few days, as she's had plenty.

Original poster

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 19:25

That is an excellent idea, Googley, except that I regularly take her party bags "for later" and then eat the sweets when she's forgotten about them (you know, because I don't like her having too many sweets)...
and I also eat their Christmas chocolate sometimes
Perhaps I need to take a good hard look at myself, too...

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BertieBotts · 20/03/2015 19:26

I think it is harder/more emotive as they get into this stage - a younger child and you write things off as them not knowing/being clumsy/etc but she's starting to feel like a real person with quite sophisticated understanding of things and so it hurts when they don't quite get empathy yet - I think that for a 5yo immediate empathy is normal (noticing when others look sad, reacting to that) but expecting them to think forwards in time and imagine how sad mummy will feel when she finds her chocolate empty is a huge jump from that and a pretty massive ask.

But because they come across as pretty intelligent/sophisticated/empathetic in other situations, we expect them to understand things like this and it feels like a personal betrayal when they don't. I think that's what it is. It's just a learning period. If she was 13 and had eaten all of your chocolates it would be selfish or perhaps even spiteful. If she was 3, it would be careless of you to have left them in her reach. At five it's somewhere in between but she's so much closer to the three year old, and when with another, younger, child, they will tend to lean more towards the younger spectrum of their own behaviour, rather than feeling more responsible and acting older, which I think comes more at about 7+. But this is just observation rather than having particularly studied it or anything.

BertieBotts · 20/03/2015 19:28

Ha! I am guilty of "thinning out" party bag goodies too See - sometimes the immediate reward of the sweets is stronger motivation than the thought of the guilt/potential upset, especially if you think the other person won't find out. Even as adults we do that. Five year olds aren't very good at thinking ahead or at knowing whether or not somebody will find out :)

GoogleyEyes · 20/03/2015 19:47

Hmm, she may have genuinely thought it was ok, then. I wouldn't come down too hard on her.

I also confiscate party bag sweets, but they go in a special treats jar which DH raids for moments when I want them to have a sweet.

Scrounger · 20/03/2015 20:21

Another party bag scoffer here too - for their own good obviously.

Goldenbear · 20/03/2015 20:26

I think five is a bit young to think these things through. Or, if you're taking her Christmas chocolate and sweets maybe she is imitating you? I can understand that she may not notice if they are taken from an excessive stash of chocolate left over from Christmas but my eldest would've noticed the 'petty theft' from the party bags?

Original poster

MyNameIsntEarl · 20/03/2015 21:01

Thank you all again.

I'm relieved to hear of other party bag thieves.

I honestly don't think she's imitating my thefts (although I suppose I can't be certain) - I'm pretty sure I have never emerged with orange creams smeared all over my face saying with a nervous grin "just had a little snack...".

I really think she knew it wouldn't go down well.

Your point about the ages is really good, Bertie.

I have been much more clear/firm but understanding as a result of this thread - thank you very much.

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