AIBU to think train officers should be better with dealing with a vulnerable child?

[slw95xx]

Hiya all,
I have a younger sister who is nearly 16, she turns 16 on the 11th of next month so only a couple of weeks really. she is not in school due to mental health problems. she has suffered with depression and social anxiety which made it better for my sister to be taught at home with a tutor. Anyhow, My sister isn't too bad anxiety wise anymore thanks to CBT but can suffer with feeling "like she's being looked at" or "attacked" if a stranger invades her space or draws intention to her (Where she will usually slink into a corner and avoid being noticed) yesterday she came to visit me, its a 25-35 minute train journey. she buys her ticket from the machine, goes to the platform and gets the train, then gets off and meets me at the other end and then we walk to my place. she has never had a problem with this before. I used to do the route with her when she started (12-18 months ago) but she was confident enough to do it alone and to be honest I couldn't afford to get a train ticket from my town to the city to get her, another train to bring her back, a train to drop her off and then a train to get myself home as it was costing me £20 per two way journey and money is tight atm. anyways,I've waffled on enough (I just dont wanna leave any important info out)
My sister tried to buy her ticket as normal but the machine was only accepting card payment (which obvs she doesn't have) so had to go and actually speak to someone in the booth, which is a big step for her. she bought the ticket and was asked if she was buying it for herself or someone else, she answered his question honestly and went on her way. by the time she got to the stairs to walk to the platform 1 male and 1 female revenue protection (?) officers approached her. the man asked if he could see her ticket. she handed over her ticket while asking why he needed to see it as no one had asked her before. He asked her age and she told him. he then told her she looked considerably older than 15. He walked her to the platform and sat on a bench,by this time the lady had disappeared. he started asking her questions (I believe the latter are what was asked)
"What school do you go to?"
"Why aren't you in school?"
"Whats your mothers phone number?"
"Where do you live?" now these are fair enough questions even if he did seem to be bombarding her a little. she then told him she is home schooled which is why she isnt in school today.
he then asked her why she was home-schooled (non of your business!) she explained that she had social anxiety and would rather do this elsewhere (I.e a waiting room or somewhere private) as he was making her feel extremely unsettled. He ignored this request. she tried to answer his questions but could barely think let alone talk so couldnt come out with much. he gave her a clipboard with a sheet of questions on it (Just name,age,DOB, address) she filled it out and he disappeared back downstairs with it. He then came up and said that her postcode doesn't check out with her address. she then explained that she lives in an area that is named after another place and if he checked out the street name with postcode he would see that. he asks her to write it down again, she doesn't want to as she's already done it once and he keeps asking her questions which is making her feel increasingly upset. by this time she was really struggling to think properly as her anxiety had kicked in tenfold. she walked into the waiting area and sat on the floor trying to regain control over her breathing. the revenue officer walked in again and continued to ask questions (I.e "can you confirm your postcode can you confirm your birth month") at this point she lost it, told him to fuck off and ran into the ladies toilet where she bolted herself in for 20 minutes. upon leaving she saw the revenue officer talking to the ticket person that was later on her train, the revenue officer very obviously pointed her out to the ticket person but neither approached her.
AIBU to think they should have handled things better for a child with anxiety (When they know this?)
AIBU to think she should've been taken somewhere quiet and private to talk?
AIBU to consider filing a complaint against the railway? I don't want money or anything like that but an apology and revisions of their guidelines wouldn't go amiss.

Bruffin, she also asked about the waiting room (Which I believe was empty but will confirm when she drags her ass out of bed) which has CCTV, I doubt it was safeguarding but I do see your point. It doesn't bother me that they suspected her of lying, It bothers me that she was followed after explaining that she felt trapped, attacked and unsettled and after pointing out that she has MH issues to explain why. Yes she might've been trying it on but in that (very slim) possibility is there really justification to not take a child in distress somewhere private as opposed to asking them questions on a packed platform?

Ticket inspectors are paid to deal with fare evasion

They were dealing with fare evasion, they believed an adult was travelling on a childs ticket.

'Justification to not take a child in distress somewhere private"

Safeguarding issue. You say there's CCTV, but that won't make a record of what's said. A child who's announced she has anxiety and mental health issues wants to speak in private with someone who's causing her distress? I understand you may have wanted them to show compassion, but can you appreciate from their point of view why that doesn't appear to be a good idea?

OP I definitely think this warrants a complaint - the inspector may have a job to do but there's no need to be a bully about it. Whilst I can see from the inspectors pov that they may have had concerns, surely after the first few questions he could have just phoned her mum & sent her on her way?

I do think there are far to many people in these kinds of roles who are pissed on their own sense of self-importance & need a course in social awareness.

It's a shame to hear that this kind of thing is still going on - I remember being in a similar situation as a teen 20-odd years ago, and being kicked off a train at gone 10pm at a remote, unstaffed station (pre the days of mobile phones). I was absolutely bloody terrified.

surely after the first few questions he could have just phoned her mum & sent her on her way?

OP says that her sis didnt have her mums details ie phone was out of charge and lost the note with the number on it.

My ds forgot his card once and was panicking because inspectors were at his station. Told him to explain and they accompanied him on the train and i met him at our end with his ticket. When my dd has forgotten her pass i have sent her a photo of it and she has had no problems getting through. I make sure they have a copy on ticket on their phone now.

If it were a 16 year old out of school then the inspector probably has some sort of welfare responsibility. I think the ID card for your sister would be a great idea. Cards and ID badges are a bit of a prop for officials. Having something for that sort of official situation might help. I am sure she's learned to request ID at the door, her ID would be a natural balance to that. And she did brilliantly, she communicated perfectly what support she needed. He was an idiot to ignore that, I'd write a letter suggesting further training is needed for responding appropriately.

Teeb- Isn't that the fault of the officers though? the female officer shouldn't have disappeared (as mentioned in my post there were originally two), People shouldn't have to suffer just because the professionals don't follow guidelines (if there are any which I assume there is) I can appreciate that there is risk, there is risk regardless when approaching someone as a professional in that situation (You don't know who they are,if they are of sound mind etc), There were a few things in this case that the officer could've done.
A. Shown her to the waiting room and then gone to personally get a female officer.
B. Radio down to a female officer. (Only applies IF there are safeguarding measures regarding gender of officers when dealing with this sort of thing)
C. bring a second officer(gender irrelevant) by either of the above method to act as a "witness".
D. attempt to find a quiet spot elsewhere on the platform.
E. He had the information he needed he just processed it incorrectly (looking at area not postcode and street) So he could've shown her to the waiting room or toilets, reprocessed the information given the correct way (which she pointed out) and then come back up (he was obviously not concerned with her doing a runner as he'd already left her up there alone)
I can probably find a few more ways it could've been solved or at least diffused a little. I can see how some wouldn't think but I still think more training should be given and more should be put in place

I didn't mean sexual safeguarding, just general safeguarding. If for example your sister felt something had been said that was discriminatory in reference to disability/mental health then no one would be around. On a train platform there are people milling around.

Poor her, I do think people have to do their jobs etc etc etc, but they don't have to do it in an unpleasant manner, ignoring information that should have changed the way they handled the situation.

It is often the case that the type of person attracted to jobs like that are those grasping for power over others, and they take it too far.

In Scotland children from 11-25 get a young scot card that has photo id and their age on it. It gets discounts to stuff. My kids carried this if travelling alone to prove their age. I would expect kids 14-16 to be asked for proof that they are under 16 if not in school uniform on a school day and am surprised your sister didn't carry proof of age if nearly 16.
The ticket officers could have been nicer but it sounds as though your sister didn't help herself by not knowing her mum's phone number, refusing to write an address down a second time and swearing at them.
I think with teenagers running off to Syria or being sexually abused by gangs of men people working on public transport have maybe been advised to look out for young girls who aren't in school when they should be or look vulnerable.

There has been a clear failure to make reasonable adjustments for disability on the part of the revenue officer and the train company. It's not good enough to ignore a request for privacy on safeguarding grounds: they should have arrangements in place to deal with that, and in fact this one did, given that there was a female officer who could have been called back. There is simply no need to behave in this way when dealing with any member of the public, no matter how suspicious they may seem.

I agree that the ideal will be simply to get ID for your sister, but I don't think that lets the train company off the hook. The plain fact is that you can have all the ID in the world, sometimes it gets forgotten, particularly when you have mental health difficulties to deal with. I would suggest you remind them of their duties under the Equality Act and ask them to put suitable training in place as a matter of urgency.

It does surprise me how many kids don't know their parents' phone numbers. I worked in a library for a year and they used to come up to the counter and ask us to look up their telephone numbers for them so they could call home (usually when they'd forgotten their mobiles and were going to borrow a friend's). I made a point of making sure my then 9 year old ds knew our home number and when he started secondary I also wrote all the mobile and work numbers in his planner.

*Ticket inspectors are paid to deal with fare evasion

They were dealing with fare evasion, they believed an adult was travelling on a childs ticket.*

That belief has to be reasonable. It was not reasonable, as she'd bought the ticket from the counter so the ticket seller had obviously thought it was for her and didn't think she looked 16 or over and presumably they had watched her do that.

Saying the postcode didn't check out with the address - how on earth did they know that? I'd get annoyed if someone asked me to start writing things down more than once and I don't suffer with anxiety. It really sounds like bullying to me and I'm not surprised she ultimately lost it. It's a pity she did, as you lose the moral high ground, but once she'd given them her DOB that should have been enough and they should have sent her on her way.

My ds had an unpleasant experience with one of these people on Saturday. I answered my phone and I got this man saying ' Are you , is your son called and can you confirm his date of birth is ? " I said yes but my heart was in my mouth. I thought the guy was a policeman and something had happened to my ds. I said "What's going on' and he said he thought he was 16 and trying to skip an adult fare. He then actually hung up on me! I had such a shock. Why couldn't he have started the call with 'Don't worry you're son is fine but ....'. The police treat criminals with better manners!
Dh wanted me to complain but having heard the Ops story, I'd feel I was making a fuss about nothing. I would say the parents here should make a formal complaint.

can i just say from one anxiety sufferer to another, your sister did incredibly well. She really did, i would complain, yes they are right to challenge but not interrogate like that.
I really really hope this doesn't put her off using a train again.

she can get a bank card linked to a cash account - wont let you go overdrawn - halifax let them have from age 12 so it should be easy to sort out so she has a debit card.

the laminated passport is good idea too.

I would be putting a complaint in , they are not fucking truancy officers and should know their fucking place. How dare he speak to her like that?

Btw my sister has no photographic ID. We have never left the country and she is too young for a driving license etc, so even though she had her wallet on her she had nothing in it other than money and some old train tickets. I'm still really upset on my sis's behalf because she was so upset over it all it could've been handled much better(in my opinion). I'll be making a few phone calls later to find out who I should lodge a complaint with. My sister is supposed to be going back to cardiff on saturday but is refusing to use the train again, so i'll have to get my DH to give her a lift(not a problem, he's the only one in the family that drives) I'm just concerned this will set her back as public transport has always been quite challenging for her xx

It's really sad to hear that your sister has been put off. I wonder if there's something that could be done to help her regain confidence? For example, I wonder if it would be possible to arrange for her to be welcomed on to the train by the manager and helped at the other end of the journey? I realise that to make that happen, the train company would need to be incentivised to act. Best way to do that may be to put the fact that your sister is now reluctant to use the train in your letter of complaint, and you should send it to the CEO, and cc your MP, official bodies, etc. They need to understand that through their behaviour, they are now going to lose revenue because they've scared her off. Not that this is the most important consequence of course - but it is probably the most important consequence for them. I'm guessing involving the media is an automatic no, even with anonymity? That would apply sharper pressure than other routes. You could try tweeting the problem at them on their feed, and see if you can get the story picked up, maybe?

slw95xx I've suggested further up the thread that you write to the rail company, Passenger Focus and Transport for All. That makes a good start.

Tweeting about it might work - you get much better responses from the South West Trains twitter feed than you ever would from their customer service team, but of course you have the 140 character limit. Ideally you need to find out who their customer service director is and write directly to them, bypassing the customer service team who will reply by 2016 if you are lucky.

Moving forward if your sisters nearly 16 is she entitled to some sort of benefit to pay for taxis? Or alternatively there's mopeds and aixam cars she can drive

I agree with Bruffin, Teeb and others in that I don't think the staff did anything wrong. Clearly your dsis is upset, but, without some kind of official letter / card / documentation to prove that it's fine for her to be out and about in school hours, of course it's going to be difficult. I can't believe she hasn't been challenged before. As others have said, any teen being caught either traveling for half price when they weren't, or bunking off school is going to appear anxious, etc. I'm surprised your parents haven't had to face this earlier.

I think you are BU, they didn't do anything wrong.

Unlike BackforGood, I think the staff certainly acted improperly, or at the very least they'd been badly trained. They should treat everyone with ordinary politeness: there is simply no need to be rude and officious, and they should be alert for people with potential mental health difficulties. Your sister's request to go somewhere more private was perfectly reasonable, and there was no good reason for ignoring it and for continuing to hector her when it was she explained the inspector's error with regard to the postcode. As I said above, this is clear disability discrimination and all staff in this position should be properly trained in how to deal with disabled and vulnerable people.