To ask for advice on how to deal with rudeness at work

[IamtheDuchessstill]

I am in a professional role and mentor trainees in the profession. I currently have one mentee and a second one who is paired with her for part of the placement. The second one is only with us for a short time, while the former is there for 12 months.

The environment we work in is stressful and there is a certain amount of gallows humour behind the scenes. One of the challenges trainees face is dealing with this while maintaining their own professionalism. Since this second trainee arrived, I have had a number of complaints from members of staff about his attitude. He is very loud and has offended several people with his humour and frequent comments about his lairy weekends. I had a word with him about this with the first trainee present, as his behaviour seemed to be rubbing off on her, though previously she had fitted in with the team well. I was aware that, from a trainee's perspective it possibly sounds like double-standards, since staff themselves can be loud and use our workroom to vent in. However, part of being a trainee is that you can't act like a permanent member of staff does.

They seemed to take it well and have quietened down considerably since. However, I have noticed that now, whenever something controversial, or something that could be considered black-humour is said, particularly by me, the pair of them are exchanging pointed looks at each other. It may sound silly, but I am now feeling that I have to watch every word I say at work. They have also been very muted in their responses to an appraisal meeting I held with them, to the point, almost, of rudeness.

I don't know how to handle this. I want to raise it, but don't want to escalate things and perhaps spoil further the previously good relationship I had with the original trainee, who will be with us for another 6 months. I don't know if they realise how obvious these looks are, and there are several of them a day - more or less anything I say seems to provoke one. I have mentored for several years, but have never encountered this before, perhaps because there has only ever been one trainee at a time in the past.

Any advice from wise and assertive MNetters would be great.

I would take a chance for a coffee with them, so that the setting is informal and relaxed and tell them almost verbatim what you have said here…

Quite frankly, I get why they are doing that, a do as I say, not as I do attitude is not great.

As a 'trainee', I have had this, and when it happens all I think of those training me is that they are hypocritical and it makes me want to shut down on anything useful they may have to teach me, as I question the validity.

So, yes, do watch what you say in front of them, you are at work and should be setting an example, you are not at home or on a night out with your friends.

Thank you for the advice. IAmAllImportant I do get what you are saying, but in the work we do, we would all be off sick within weeks if we had to watch what we said in the staff area, seriously. I haven't had a night out in years sob, but the comments I and my colleagues make are not on those lines at all; it is just venting.

The comments this man made are different, and offensive to some, partly because we are going through an even more stressful time than usual at the moment, and people are working 60-70 hours a week. Trainees, of course, are not, and part of the annoyance was caused by him going on about how his university days are a 'doss' and enable him to have a four day weekend etc. It really didn't go down well when others are barely having a weekend at all..

Totally agree with IAm. How can you be training people by saying this is what we do... Dont do it as it is inappropriate! Of course they are going to look at you like youre a jackass.

It doesn't "sound like" double standards. It IS double standards. You've probably not encountered it before because a sole trainee has little choice but to swallow the hypocrisy and be a good little boy or girl. The two of them have obviously become allies and are simply calling you on the double-standards.

Maybe instead of branding the trainees as "rude" you might want to question what kind of model of professionalism you are demonstrating within this particular workplace.

I agree it is double standards why should the trainees be held to a higher standard than the permant staff?

I don't go off sick yet still manage to not make inappropriate remarks. It really isn't difficult.

Trainees probably are not paid the same as the people working longer. It is not the trainees fault other people are not having a decent weekend.

I think you ( and your voice-workers) are being massively unreasonable. Why is it OK for you to not have to watch what you say while expecting them to? And as for trainees mot working 70h weeks, As interns / work placement students I bet they are not paid anywhere near ?hat permanent members of staff are paid.

I can sort of understand though - there are some jokes/humour strands that almost have to be earned and underpinned with everyone knowing, long term, that you're committed to your responsibility or they sound shallow and in poor taste. Also subtle rules - it's ok to use certain words and so forth but not others. It's the same with anything - parenting, for example- parents can make jokes about family life that sound ok when the same joke would sound arrogant/judgey from a non parent.
You see it as cringe-moments in comedies like Peep Show or The Office ... The new person gets the joke wrong and suddenly silence falls. The fact others complained suggests to me that kind of scenario albeit on a more realistic scale.
There are often subtle, invisible "lines" trainees cross without realising so it can sound crasser than intended.

I've had to deal with similar. It wasn't to do with jokes but the perception that a (very experienced) team member was doing a "5 min job" of a preparation task, but the mentor expected the trainee to spend at least 30 min (because the reason the experienced team member could do it so quickly was they knew every bit of the job inside out and off by heart). They took to ostentatiously asking their mentor how long and how much effort should be put in.
In the end I stepped in and (as PP suggested) spelled out the situation quite clearly to them about how they were still different from an experienced staff member in certain regards (and that the answer was "until it is done to the expected standard" ... If it wasn't I'd ask them to spend more time).

It really helped to have specific examples to avoid "it's a misunderstanding" too.

To be honesty it sounds like you and your co workers are being highly inappropriate.

If it's not acceptable in a trainee then it certainly isn't acceptable for a permanent member of staff.

I too think that you can't have one set of rules for staff and another for trainees. Presumably the trainees aren't paid for out of your service budget, they may not even be paid at all and so I don't think it's fair to expect them to put in long hours. If the trainee's comments about his lairy weekends are offensive because he's being sexist, racist or is bragging about being engaged in something illegal then I'd speak to him and make it clear it's unacceptable. If it's just that he's going on about having lots of free time I wouldn't see this as anyone else's business.

Forgot to say ... of course as soon as you're mentoring/training/managing you get a new line: no dodgy jokes in the workplace.

I don't buy this one person can say x but another can't rubbish. No way. If something is unacceptable it is unacceptable no ifs or buts.

I'm not surprised they think you're a hypocrite.

You can't lecture someone about being polite and professional and then behave in an unprofessional manner yourself. Making inappropriate comments shouldn't be something you earn the right to do. Either it's accepted in a workplace or it's not.

Discussing it with them again will only exacerbate the issue.

Are you doctors and is this an episode of Grey's Anatomy? You cannot continue to operate the double standards

squizita It is pretty much exactly as you have described it. We are not talking about a bunch of people making irrelevant jokes and then complaining when someone else does the same. We are talking about dedicated professionals talking about work in a manner that that, to the uninitiated, may seem flippant, cold, factitious, but the people involved are really none of those things.

I do get why it seems hypocritical, but I am shocked that people think it is alright for someone to sit surrounded by people who are running around like headless chickens yakking on about their four-day weekend. No one expects him to work 70 hours a week, but a bit of sensitivity wouldn't go amiss.

Ironically, one of the issues I have had with the original trainee is that she hasn't shown the level of consideration towards our service-users that we would expect, though she is technically competent. Usually trainees are more passionate than accurate and, tbh, some of the people she is now eye-rolling about have more compassion in their little finger than she has shown of late...

No I get what you're saying OP.

I may be wrong but are the trainees being earmarked for more senior positions eventually than the people in the staff room in which case you would expect them to be more reflective in what they say. It's part of learning how to be part of a team, as is not rubbing it in to people that you work 4 days a week whilst they're working most weekends.

Unfortunately you are going to have to watch yourself when they are around and play things completely by the book, so no sarcastic, gallows humours comments for a while. That means that each and every time they exchange a little look or whatever, you can pull them up for it.

underling all this ..It possibly sounds like you are fed up with your working hours and jealous of the trainees hours hence you pulling him up for his not particularly outrageous comments?

Would advise separating them, different shifts different breaks assigning new team members for them to spend time with. Also bear in mind that it is difficult for new members to fit into well established teams and that is how wires get crossed . I also think your tea need to reassess how they themselves welcome and integrate new staff members whether they be students or not as I'm sure any new stAff would find this dynamic difficult.

The lack of compassion is more of an issue than the 'looks'. Deal with that.

NOW!

'However, part of being a trainee is that you can't act like a permanent member of staff does'

^^^

That just doesn't sit well with me.

Can you explain......

definitely not jealous of them - would not be starting out again for anything and I love my job and the specific role I have now. I don't think there are many people who relish working 70 hours a week and then having someone sit and brag about their 4 day weekend apart from people on here who decide they -are not going to see the point being made.

The dynamic doesn't sound particularly difficult. It sounds as if all that's required is learning about the job and keeping conversation light touch and innocuous, which is surely what most people try to do when assimilating into an existing workplace.

Quitelikely I think squizita above explained it perfectly. Another example is that certain times of the day are a lot busier than others, so at that point, no one wants to hear about this now legendary 4 day weekend. However, at a quieter time, staff who have worked their arses off for 6 hours might wish to have a seemingly trivial/humorous/irreverent conversation without eyebrows being raised to the sky by people who have done very little all day.

I agree with Hotbot about team members reflecting on how they welcome/interact with trainees, I think all that stuff about having to earn the right to make jokes is daft and doesn't strike me as part of a healthy working culture. I was interested in what rookiemare said about whether they are being earmarked for more senior positions. I think whether they are or not at this stage it can be a small world (I'm guessing you do some kind of professional role in health or social care as do I) trainees I have mentored are now working in the same organisation as me and I'm very glad that I was always on good terms with them, they may bare a grudge later if you hold them to double standards now.