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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

what is reasonable! neighbour drive dispute update vvvv long sorry

49 replies

walterwhitesgf · 17/03/2015 11:46

Link to old thread (hopefully)www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/a2307681-To-say-FOTTFSOF-long-boundaries-house-sale-neighbours?msgid=52565261#52565261

Apologies- meant to update for those kind souls who took an interest. I would appreciate opinion, informed or otherwise as I am so mired in this it’s hard to know what is reasonable anymore.
Many conversations about this matter instigated by neighbour and after speaking to my solicitor close examination of the deeds and a covenant drawn up the 50’s (including one doctored by them showing a fake line drawn up the entry) it seems that the entry and a path (that no longer exists) in front of the entry, are party pathways and to be kept clear and maintained by the three properties they serve. Though if you remember they have blocked their other side neighbours access to these. I agreed in the interest of being completely pissed off with the whole thing neighbourliness that I would keep the area in front of the entry and just park on my side of the drive...though I was pissed off about this as the neighbour’s daughter who sold me the house told me it was my drive area.
I stated many times that I would not agree have my drive, or the shared bit in front of the entry door (it’s a composite and is all one surface) drilled into, dug up to allow a border to be made , have a line painted down it have anything attached to it etc etc as my neighbour claimed her buyer wanted .I consulted the original company who laid the drive and they said they would not recommend doing any of the above as it would compromise the integrity of the surface and weeds, water etc could get in , cracks could form and spread across the whole drive. They also told me after I gave them my address that they had received a number of enquiries regarding my property, though they didn’t give me any names.
Then about a 10 days ago neighbour said she was giving buyer an ultimatum, buy as it is or they (the neighbour) would pull out. Much relief all round. A week later she came round saying buyer had agreed to proceed but wanted them to write a history of how the drive came to be as it was, wanted me to sign an affidavit stating I would keep to my own bit of the drive, and agree to a marker on the drive indicating the boundary. Basically back to the beginning again! My partner (joint owner of property) at this point said enough is enough. He also pointed out that if prospective buyer was like this now, what he would be like as a neighbour. Especially if every time he made a request re our property, reasonable or not, we conceded. He has refused to sign anything or to have a marker stuck on or drilled into the drive and after looking over the legal docs again; I don’t think any further clarification is needed. I told my neighbour at the weekend and she was not happy
Yesterday ndn daughter doorstepped me as I came back from work and said that unless I agreed to the demands, they would be taking me to the small claims court to recover the £4000 they would lose by the sale falling through. I just said to her, ‘well you will have to do that won’t you’ and walked in to my house. It’s getting v upsetting and feels like harassment now. What is my next move mnetters?

OP posts:

AMillionNameChangesLater · 17/03/2015 11:54

Stand your ground. Let them take you to the small claims court, I would!

OwlCapone · 17/03/2015 12:02

it seems that the entry and a path (that no longer exists) in front of the entry, are party pathways and to be kept clear and maintained by the three properties they serve.

So the disputed "land" is not your property?

miniavenger · 17/03/2015 12:02

I don't think they have a leg to stand on really given that they lied in the first place and that it's been recommended not to do that- though you may be best getting this moved to Legal for advice. I would speak to a solicitor but the bill is their problem. With EA whether you complete or not if you get to exchange then you (the sellers) have to still pay the fees and then pay again next time. They just want to find a way to minimise this loss.

It started when they lied to you, then (presumably) to the EA and new buyer and now they are trying harassment and to blackmail you with the idea of money loss. You definitely need solicitor advice and tbh given their attitude I would report them for harassment as well.

BooChunky · 17/03/2015 12:07

Sorry, I'm confused... It is your land?

50shadesofmeh · 17/03/2015 12:09

your property or not, you are not under any obligation to sign anything you don't want to, a bit of shame for their sale but tough, they sound like they would be nightmare neighbours anyway.

Original poster

walterwhitesgf · 17/03/2015 12:10

Owl no the pathway in front of the entry , which was sold to me as part of my drive and is laid as such , is the responsibility of three properties in the terrace. I have agreed that though I feel it is a loss to me but hey ho. My solicitor said as it wasn't fenced just visually marked he wasn't sure I had a case in law
Mini I am not selling or buying this relates to my next door neighbours and their prospective buyer who is making demands of me

OP posts:

miniavenger · 17/03/2015 12:10

What does your other neighbour think btw? Is s/he aware that your neighbours are blocking their access to shared lane and selling the house and (likely) that shared land off too? So basically new buyer will buy thinking they own the land part that the neighbours have blocked -which is actually shared- and then they'll have the same issues that you have had because new buyer will think it's their property and actually it's not.

Sounds like they have big time form for lying when it comes to selling houses. I wouldn't trust them, seek legal advice.

OwlCapone · 17/03/2015 12:12

they sound like they would be nightmare neighbours anyway.

I disagree. They simply want what is stated in the deeds, in the same way the OP wants what she thought was hers. That doesn't make them a nightmare.

OwlCapone · 17/03/2015 12:13

Personally, I would paint a small mark at either end of the boundary and be done with it.

I wouldn't sign anything though.

miniavenger · 17/03/2015 12:15

Walter, I know, my point is that the reason they are claiming is for the fees from falling through (the £4000) which probably includes fees for selling again as well. I really don't see how they can recover it from small claims because it's a bill from the Estate Agent and would have been agreed to in advance. If they think you are purposefully obstructing they should be employing their solicitor to communicate with you exactly what repercussions would be, not making threats about small claims.

Methe · 17/03/2015 12:21

So you laid your drive over a shared path?

50shadesofmeh · 17/03/2015 12:22

you know what, having read your old thread id go to solicitor and claim land as your own, it was sold to you when you bought your house.

miniavenger · 17/03/2015 12:23

Methe, from what I can see on previous thread: neighbours owned their house and their kids owned the OPs. The kids or neighbours created the double drive and when selling to the OP they both agreed it was the OPs drive, not a shared point.

50shadesofmeh · 17/03/2015 12:24

well it will be a nightmare for op when she loses land and value from her house, through others peoples dishonesty.

50shadesofmeh · 17/03/2015 12:25

in my opinion they gifted the land to their daughter, who then sold it to you therefore it doesn't belong to them anymore.

Methe · 17/03/2015 12:27

Apologies I've just seen your other thread.

Let them take you to small claims court.

PrimalLass · 17/03/2015 12:29

So the daughter who sold you the house and said the land is yours is now saying they will sue over the land?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 17/03/2015 12:30

You need proper legal advice.

Treeceratops · 17/03/2015 12:33

An estate agent's bill of that size for a lost sale doesn't make sense. A hundred pounds or so for photos maybe, but that sounds like the commission, which agents only get on completion of a sale.
I don't think the buyer is being unreasonable. As Owl says, they just want the situation sorted before they buy. HOWEVER you have no obligation to your current neighbours, particularly given their past behaviour. It's their problem. What does your solicitor advise?

Collaborate · 17/03/2015 12:35

Let me see if I've got this right.

9 Years ago you bought a house.There's a passageway between your house and nextdoor providing access to 3 back gardens.

Originally the boundary between the front drives ran down the middle of the passage and straight through to the street. Your previous owners are the issue of your neighbours. At some point over 12 years ago they paved their drive and went over the boundary to their parent's edge of the passageway. Prior to then the parents had paved their drive to their edge of the passageway too.

When you bought the house your buyers said that the whole drive paved was yours, and next door confirmed that. Do you have any proof of that?

What do your deeds say about who had right of way over the drive and down the passage? You can't park your cars on the drive so as to substantially interfere with someone's right of way.

As for next door cutting into your printed drive, is it really worth the hassle if neither of you can park there anyway? I'd suggest you send a solicitor's letter to them to point out that if they do cut in to your drive and cause damage to it you'll sue them for the cost of any remedy.

TheUnwillingNarcheska · 17/03/2015 12:39

They cannot take you to court over this. The sale of next door is not your concern.

You don't need to sign anything, the deeds are clear, that the path is to be left clear. As long as you park your car on your actual drive and not over the entry I cannot see what the problem is.

This should have been highlighted to you by your solicitor when you bought the house. Sorry, but it should. You should never rely on the information provided by the homeowner.

If you are door stopped again, tell them you will not respond to any verbal communication and it has to be in writing, keep repeating this and politely shut your door.

Have a wander over to GardenLaw website, I think your case would come under either rights of way or boundaries but here is the rights of way forum.

They are stressing because they are trying to sell and their buyer's solicitor will be asking them all sorts of questions, hence why they want the path marked.

CapnMurica · 17/03/2015 12:50

I don't really get why the potential new neighbour is even asking this, now it has been established that your driveways are separated by a walkway to the alley.

Your neighbour can paint a little marker on their side, and then you, being good neighbours, will obviously keep to your bit.

They will have to take it in good faith if they want to move in. It's not your concern or anything to do with you to assure them you won't park on the walkway, surely?!

OwlCapone · 17/03/2015 12:55

they gifted the land to their daughter

They can't gift what was not theirs. The path is a shared path between three houses.

Collaborate · 17/03/2015 13:09

Owlcapone - land ownership is not shared. One part of the passageway (including the part at the front) is owned by A, another by B, and A,B and C have rights to pass over all of it. It's possible that by their actions the neighbours may be estopped from denying the right of OP to treat all of the path as hers, but that doesn't extinguish the rights of way.

Original poster

walterwhitesgf · 17/03/2015 13:17

Thank you all
I feel like a normal human being again whereas last night I felt like a snivelling wreck. It is a horrible feeling to not feel at peace in your own home in case neighbours or their relatives knock on the door or stop you on the way in
I do feel the sale of next door is not my concern, the misunderstanding (and that's a polite way of expressing how I feel about it because it has been out and out sharp practise) over the drive I have conceded , but I feel they should acknowledge that are asking a lot of me now by asking for signed docs and drive markers when this was none of my making.
collaborate originally there was raised path the width of the entry which we now know is a pathway to be shared by three properties. The previous owner of my house who is my ndn daughter, removed the path and laid a drive over that and her drive to make one unified area, therby widening her drive and she sold it to me as that. I don't have proof as all discussions about it were verbal but I have used that drive with my ndn acknowledging it as my drive for the past 9 years. I do think it will have marginally reduced value in my property as now you can only park one car on the drive and I did consider it as a factor when i purchased , but I am chalking all that up to experience now caveat emptor and all that. I am not arguing it as to me the deeds are clear . That area is shared and must be kept clear. Its my only access to my property as I have no front door onto the road, unlike my next door neighbour so I am concerned to keep it clear and unobstructed myself.
The Unwilling my instinct is to do just what you advise, do not engage and ask for all communication to be in writing, The third neighbour doesn't know their access way is blocked as they are a tenant and the owner lives down south. Ndn changed boundary and removed their gate in between one tenant moving out and another moving in
I really feel I have nothing left to say to them now

OP posts:

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