To think I can't continue in this job after recent events? Very long, sorry.

[Tepeetent]

I work for a large, public sector organisation.

Four years ago I was seconded into my current dept from my main job. Am technically still on a secondment. My job description for this secondment says that I am a key member of Dept X but it's a very niche position which doesn't quite fit in with the dept. I worked very closely with the manager of this department as her second in command initially. As the years progressed a more senior manager was getting me to do more general work not very closely related to dept x which needed doing. I'm the only person doing this work.

We had a new big boss recently, think director/board level.

My immediate boss saw the writing on the wall as new boss comes with a reputation and big boss had immediately said he didn't like how the dept was being run. My immediate boss who I got on with very well left.

Her job was advertised internally, as a secondment, but at a lower level/grade. The advert basically was what my job description is. I tried pointing this out but was just told to apply. I did apply and didn't get it. The new person started, didn't like it and left after two weeks. So I thought maybe big boss would ask if I was still interested. I'm the only other applicant and the only other person with any experience.

However he didn't. They gave the job to someone who hadn't applied for it but has just come back after long term sick.

I've stewed over this for a while and then made an apt to see the big boss. The meeting went very badly.

It started off with me getting told off for a post I put on a closed group on Facebook. The group is related to my Union and talked about possibility of working to rule, I admit I was encouraging it. Big boss very unhappy. Someone has printed conversation off and put it under his door. But our union had also been discussing this and it wasn't long after we came out on an official strike.

I then started trying to say I was unhappy with what's happened. He said ive got to clear my desk and leave my office as I can't be based in X dept anymore as I might hear stuff I shouldn't be privy to. I said how only a few months ago I was doing the work which is done in this dept. He tried to downplay how involved I am in the dept. I said my job description says I'm to deputise for the dept manager in her absence. He was saying no way am I to do that, it's not my role, etc. meeting ended suddenly as he ran out of time. Told me to come and see him again next week.

I just feel bullied, victimised. I feel totally un appreciated.

So I have two choices. I carry on doing the work I've been doing for the last few months which I don't enjoy as much as the work I should be doing. With a boss who treats me like shit on his shoe. Move my stuff out the office, find new desk space, etc and put up with it.

Or I resign from the secondment. Money is the same in both jobs. Downside is that I would have to go back to shifts and the work is physically harder and sometimes I feel I'm getting too old for that sort of stuff!

Upside is that I can cut my hours which ive been wanting to do for sometime and go from full time to 4 days a week. As Id get unsocial pay if I went back to my old job Id earn the same money for less hours.

Current post looks better on my CV but unless I'm prepared to commute I can't really progress. I think I can kiss goodbye to any career progression in current employment as the big boss is the same in whichever job I do and I genuinely think he doesn't like me.

Current job has a lot of responsibly and hassle which I wouldn't have if I went back to my old job. But then I do currently on a day to day basis get to sort my own workload out, be my own boss to a large extent which is nice.

So stay or go?

Current job. Hassle, full time, boss hates me, feeling stressed but do enjoy being challenged. No shifts.

Old job. Less hassle, can leave at end of shift and forget about work. Can reduce hours. But shifts, nights, weekends. Still the same boss but probably off their radar a bit. And I must admit there's a small immature part of me which wants to do it as leaving my current job will cause my big boss a headache. But I do feel I want to make a point. That if I'm not good enough for what used to be my job then you can fuck off!

Is it an internal secondment from one department to another, with the same employer? If so, you might be able to argue that because it's gone on for so long your role in the current team is permanent.

It seems unfair of your previous line manager to say that internal advertising for what sounds like a more senior role was "only a formality" and promise you a job.

Yes, I did wonder if they can legally argue they have to help this other employee. It seems to be that if your face fits they bend over backwards to help you. Other employees have become unable to carry on with the physical work and rather than been found a desk job they've had to leave.

I currently bring a lot of work home, am contacted out of work all the time. Just had my second fb message of the day from a colleague asking me stuff.

So in a way would be nice to step away from all that. I'm going to tell them tomorrow that I want to give up my secondment ASAP. Will tell my line manager who is nice and sympathises but feels her hands are tied. Will bypass the big boss completely. He told me to arrange a meeting to discuss my role so just won't bother, no point if I hvave up the role and it keeps me out his way!

Yes, it is an internal secondment, same employer. So the job role on my job description which Id been doing for years has just been given to someone else. It stinks. I don't have the energy for a fight.

Thanks for all the advice.

Another option could be to approach your direct line manager and ask for clarification of your job description and objectives since what you thought was your role is now being done by someone else?

Whatever role you're in or move to I would come off fb for work purposes tbh, and not respond to any requests for you to do work or provide information via fb!

Done that already. Line manager who only became my manager recently said that she thinks my secondment job role and job description were inappropriate and should never have been so. So not much help.

Has your old job been kept open for you? If your organisation doesn't have a secondment policy what do the letters/contracts offering you the secondment and extending it say? (In my organisation, substantive posts were generally kept open while someone was on secondment but, if it was extended beyond a certain period, it could be agreed that the substantive post would be filled and the secondee would be found an alternative post in their old department at their substantive grade at the end of the secondment period).

Also, are you still in touch with people in your old job role and do you know what the job is currently like? If your organisation is like a lot of the public sector, services have changed drastically over the last few years, with much fewer staff delivering a reduced service which is still extremely difficult to deliver with so few people. Unless you do know what it's like now, I wouldn't assume that you are going back to how things were four years ago.

My current job role is training people in my old job role. So I'm in that area most days. Theyre always short staffed so would take me back.

Don't actually have any letters or contracts for the secondment. Just my job description. They filled out a payroll change form of 12 months, then did it again for another 12 months, then just told hr to keep paying me full time until further notice.

Can you have an informal chat with your union rep. If not then try ACAS, but hopefully someone close to the situation could give you better answers.

There are several questions here:

1. Should your secondment have carried on for so long without becoming permanent?
2. Have they acted lawfully by replacing you with someone else? (Probably depends on the answer to 1)
3. I thought that comments during union discussions were meant to be kep anonymous to management, so check on whether even mentioning this to you was OK.
4. Can the union give you any advice on how they think you could proceed?

2 or 3 years is a really long time to put up with a shitty boss, so at least think about what you want from this. Even if you got the 'perfect' response of being given back your job and made permanent, you have to work with this boss. Could you live with that?

No, I don't think I could work with this boss. I've no respect for him and I don't think he feels he can work with me.

I think I'd move jobs entirely...different company, the lot.

The thing is, if the job you're currently doing requires discretion, posting in a fb group (it doesn't matter if it's closed...there are still other people in it) has shown them you're not suitable for the role. I'd bet that he was aware of it before you formally applied for it.

I could have written your OP. In your shoes I would head back to your permanent post. The new boss has decided your face does not fit their vision of the way forward team and however hard you fight I doubt you will change their mind. Yes, it's probably illegal but I'd take the path of less stress. Is it possible to seek a promotion in your original department?

Could you move to a new job? Are there openings in your area?

Seriously, think carefully before getting involved in action against your boss. Do not underestimate how draining it is. When it comes down to it, it's just a job.

Tepee it's illegal to discriminate against you for your affiliation with a union. Is there an HR department? I think you need to start the grievance procedure and the first thing is to raise it informally.

1. Speak to ACAS
2. Raise it with HR
3. Record everything - have a paper trail. Back up all conversations with emails. If you haven't broken your social media policy it sounds like they are on shaky ground.

Thanks, yes taking screenshots and printing off the current policy is a good idea. Will do that.

Sorry I cannot advise you what to do, and I think you would be the first to say it must be your choice. If I were in your shoes I would make lots of lists and just see which option works best for you.

In one sense life is too short to work in a place where you are undervalued or whatever but it also depends how hard it is to get a job where you are!

You can stay in current role and do the work
You can move back to your old role
You can look for a new job (if you are doing that then go for whichever role would make your chances of success better)

Having said this you do not need to put up with bullying but you will need evidence of this, so you need to collect any evidence and there must be some advice on line for this.

No idea if this will help www.bullyonline.org/action/action.htm and Google - Bullying and harassment at work - Acas

You should be able to talk to your union about all this, and if you feel you are being pushed out, and in your words "bullied, victimised. I feel totally un appreciated" you can surely speak to your union about this who can take this up on your behalf.

Check out with your union what the rights and wrongs are of what you said or did in this closed group. If it is not illegal to discuss these things (like working to rule) can you really be sanctioned for this if you post about it in a closed group? I am genuinely asking as I genuinely do not know. Social media is all so new and I am not sure of the rights and wrongs of all this, BUT to me it seems wrong you should be punished or penalised if what you were doing was not illegal or wrong just because someone else (your boss) did not like it!

Can you speak to your previous boss (are you friends, email or Facebook connection) and ask their advice in confidence? Be careful you do not break any rules!

Also check out constructive dismissal....

www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismissal

Tepeetent I have not read all your comments but I just wanted to say if you are going to leave anyway then have you got anything to lose in trying to get what you want from the situation? Genuine question.

If it is too stressful, do not do it, it is not worth it, but if you are up for the 'fight' then take advice.

If he is not taking the Facebook thing any further get it in writing. Then presumably he cannot just bring it up again if it suits him.

Do what suits you best. But please do not miss out on things because of worry about having a union rep etc. That is presumably what they are for.

So if according to your new manager the secondment role wasn't appropriate, what role/objectives do they say you ARE there to fulfil? A training role? Do you now have clear objectives?

Do they want to keep you where you are, in a role you dislike, or return you to the previous department?

Sounds like the senior manager who is problematic is in charge of both departments, obviously not great!

.

Sorry. No, never had official, written objectives. Did have a discussion with line manager a couple of months ago advising me just to concentrate on the training side of things. Which is hardly mentioned in my job description and was initially a small part of my role.

They would much rather I stay in my current role. I'm good at it and have sorted out the training needs no end. I'm on top of it and I'm good at it. There's some stuff I do as part of the training which you need qualifications for which no one else in the organisation has. So if I leave, they'll struggle.

I imagine they'll ask me to carry on doing that specific training thing even if I go back to my old role. Will take one day a month so it's doable. My heart says I want to say no, but my head says I ought to do it.

I'd go back to old job. Less hassle and further away from boss who just thinks that you shouldn't be in that dept on secondment. I have had similar experience, but in my case the boss just went off me having been very complimentary about me at first. I know that me deciding to go back to old job before I was pushed back was the best decision for me. And I learnt a lot on secondment that helps now as well. I am now in a much better role for my skills as well. I wouldn't fight it out - it's too stressful.

I saw my line manager today and have told her I want to go back to my old job. I feel a weight has lifted off me. Though slightly nervous that I might regret it and can't go back if I do.

Anyway she says I need to stay in post until they get a replacement. Which I'm not thrilled about. Due to their usual slowness at pulling their finger out by the time they've done an advert, date of application, then looked at forms, arranged an interview and someone can start im worried it could be 3 months.

I told her my dh has a new job which he starts in 4 weeks time and ideally I want to have dropped my hours and gone back to shifts by then. I can't afford not to have done because it will cost me over £200 a month in dog walker fees if I'm still doing 9-5. I'm not sure she realised how serious I am.

I'm going to email her tomorrow and I think cc the main boss in saying that I don't see that I can carry on in this post after 4 weeks are up.

I have agreed to carry on with the once monthly training day. Line manager says the company paid for me to have the training which means I can deliver the training and she has a point.

I spoke to acas as well. I've got no right to have my job description recognised as its a secondment. I can only insist on a secondment been made perm after 4 years and I'm just under 4 years. They have said though that the FB telling off was out of order big time and that Id have grounds for a grievance. I told my line manager this. I'm not going to do anything though.

It's miserable being where you aren't wanted. Go back to the old job, but start job hunting for something better.

If there was no paperwork outlining the dates of your secondment, surely you can go back to the job you're actually contracted to do at any time?