In thinking my friend shouldnt have to change her baby on filthy, toilet floors ??

[Triooooooooooo]

He's 13......but lets face it, they're always our babies.

He's profoundly disabled and wears nappies, he will wear nappies for the rest of his life, he will need all personal care needs taken care of for the rest of his life which is bad enough, I can't think of anything worse than having this happen on a filthy, cold, toilet floor.

The r's no argument in the fact that things need to change, just one changing place in each town would make a massive difference to the lives of people like my friend and her son, i'm sure most of the people who have clicked on this thread can spare a few seconds to sign this petition and show a little support to societies most vulnerable.

www.changing-places.org/news/changing_places_campaign_petitions_decision_makers.aspx

Most hospitals don't either I had to change DS on his bed. Then I had to ask for the sheets changed each time because he has bowel issues and it is very hard not to get it anywhere.

I wouldn't like to lie on a public toilet floor, even on a towel.

I agree about the hospitals Hurr1cane

I used to have to take DD to our regional Childrens Hospital (which is 50 miles away)for Outpatients appointments and there was never anywhere to change her except the floor of the Disabled toilets.
Even now, at our local hospital, you have to wait for a hoist to be brought when she needs to transfer to an examination bed or x-ray table and that's when they want to do something to her. Imagine the performance if we just rolled up because we were visiting another patient and needed somewhere to change DD. No one would bat an eyelid at other visitors using the toilets.

Glad you've had success at incorporating CPs into buildings Bohemond. As you say, the structure for the hoist needs to be in at the start. I have lost count of the number of times I have had to say this to people who are planning new builds for childrens services and when asked about providing such facilities, they come out with "thats just fixtures and fittings, we are not at that stage yet" .

absolutely agree!
I have a family member who is 11 and will never be toilet trained.
days out for him and his carers are an absolute nightmare.
eveb hospitals often don't have provisions.

I completely agree that they are needed, but incorporating ceiling track hoists is seriously tricky, surely? Different people will use different slings which will not necessarily be compatible with the hoists installed in such facilities, and hoist manufacturers are very quick to void a warranty if you don't use their brand of sling with the hoist. I'm an OT - hoists and slings are a ridiculous beaurocratic minefield.

elphaba I have never had difficulty using DDs sling on a hoist elsewhere. Nor have I come across the issue you state re warranties. We have 2 ceiling track hoists in our house - both different makes and the slings DD uses aren't from either of those companies. I think the firms you are dealing with are just trying it on.

They are definitely trying it on with the warranties thing, so we try and circumvent that with a water-tight risk analysis before we issue slings of a different make to the hoist, but there are some slings which are only compatible with some hoists and not others e.g. if someone uses a clip sling Arjo on a horseshoe spreader-bar at home, there is no way they're going to be able to use an Oxford ceiling track hoist with boomerang spreader requiring loop slings, unless whoever is providing the facilities also provides disposable slings in all sizes to go with it, plus the annual LOLER testing on the hoist and accompanying slings. That's not going to happen. I suspect providing adult changing facilities with a hoist is an absolute minefield, which is why they're so rare. I can guarantee that that is why they are not provided in hospitals, as they can just provide a cubicle on a ward or in a clinic which is by far the cheaper and easier option than having a dedicated adult changing space which is unlikely to have enough users to justify the cost of installation and maintenance. I just don't know what the solution is for the community but it really is very sad as it has a serious impact on quality of life.

YANBU OP

I think it would be unreasonable for every small shop/cafe to provide an adult size changing table with hoist but shopping centres, department stores, leisure centres, hospitals, universities and other large public institutions should provide them as a matter of course.

Elphaba - I have real difficulty with the idea that a hospital wouldn't see enough physically disabled adolescents/adults in its lifetime to warrant the expense of providing somewhere private and clean for them to be changed.

They do - wards and clinics. I've worked in NHS hospitals for 12 years and we've never had a problem finding a space for an adolescent/adult person requiring changing facilities, whether they be patient or visitor. You get the odd Jobsworth who'll suck their teeth and make it out to be more difficult than it is, but there will always be some space somewhere in a hospital where a hoist can be got to where somebody can have their needs met. Be firm but polite, and you'll get the help you need. When hospitals don't have enough money to kit out their existing wards, no further funds are going to be allocated to an extra dedicated space, when that space can be created as and when it is needed.

And creating the space in shopping centres....a hoist would need an annual service, insurance (a lot - serious injury and death are not uncommon with hoists), regular repairs, you'd need to have staff available on-site who have at least a rudimentary knowledge of how it works so that problems could be competently reported, every user would need to remember to put it back on charge, then there's the question of vandals. I think they'd be out of action more than they'd be in use and I think it would take a very thoughtful and generous store CEO, probably with a disabled relative themselves, to get one installed, as the installation and ongoing running costs would be phenomenal, and I don't think they'd recoup the cost in additional sales as, let's face it, disability is expensive. The users of these facilities aren't guaranteed money-spinners for whatever shop they'd visiting.

I absolutely agree they should be available - let me be patently clear - and I wish they were available as widely as you suggest. But I also understand completely why they're not, just to give you a perspective as to why you don't see them more often.

This needs to be a petition on .gov - i've been reading these posts and feeling really sad that you guys have to deal with this as well as your day to day struggles.

can someone start a petition that every town (maybe) should have an adults changing location? I dont know enough about the problems you have to start one, but i'll damn well put my name against it and share it with friends x

This may be a controversial suggestion, but would prospective users be willing to pay a fee such as a pound to gain admittance and use adult changing facilities with a hoist? In practical/financial terms, that might be the only way of convincing large stores to instal them. Completely unfair, as no one should have to pay for their dignity to be maintained, but would it be worth it for the opportunity of being able to go out more?

I'm just trying to think of possible ways around the objections I know that stores would have...

Stores etc will always kick up a fuss about the costs. Look at their profit margins, they can afford this without charging for them.

It always used to amaze me how many wheelchair users I would see at our large, out of town shopping store. Wasn't til years later that I realised that this was because it was the only truely accessible place in town for many (has the only adult-sized changing table with hoist fi) But I live in England's 4th largest city, surely it should be better than this.

YANBU. And being a person with no friends or family who are profoundly disabled, it had never even occurred to me that this might be a problem.

I have signed the petition.