To ask how to move forward from this?

[Bythedowns2]

Long one sorry! Long time lurker! I have 1 dd aged 3 being going to nursery ( my dm owns with auntie) since 10 months old mostly without issues . I have ds who has dd aged 5 and ds aged 3 both been to same nursery too. I was fostered at a later age so these are fostered family but very close as don't have real parents alive. Previously good relationships with all, always been treated the same and so has my dd even though not blood. However sometimes always felt little things in being treated differently but let it slide as feel grateful to have a family. Very close to dsis helped each other childcare etc but both different eg different jobs I work public sector DH works finance slightly above average salaries, her and DH well paid jobs nicer house etc. slight element of competition her side but never caused a problem. We moved home 2 months ago and dd has been slightly disrupted has got very clingy and anxious being dropped at nursery crying and dm has said just having periods of screaming( goes to mil one day a week and not exhibiting exact behaviour small whinge on drop off but fine) she is also a very bright little girl excellent speech but strong willed and independant. Spoke to dm agreed a plan to try and combat anxiousness eg not telling today is nursery day etc changing subject if asks, she is going through food fussy stage and doesn't want to go to bed so dm said be firm don't give in on things. Dm is also shortly closing nursery and retiring so looking at other nurseries, we viewed one nursery and they said bring dd along. Dm didn't agree and told us not to let dd have an input in choosing nursery!!! ( we weren't) anyway short of it is I thought dd was improving tears were getting less on way to nursery and screaming was for shorter periods. Turns out wrong had a few words wed with dm she thought I wasn't listening to her advice etc cleared air and moved on - so I thiught. Yesterday I received voicemail(dm had accidentally dialed my phone left on hook) which was a recording of dm dsis and auntie basically discussing me and dd implying I was blaming everyone esle for what she is like not taking responsibility giving in to her when she won't eat what I cook, not listening to advice I was given telling me about the anxiety and dd will end up in therapy along those lines. I was extremely upset and hurt told dm so, however she was very defensive saying I blamed everyone esle I had said certain things about nursery which weren't nice( I made a joke about dd maybe being bullied) that I needed to get a grip and sort dd out, dm pleased that I had heard its out in open etc. we spoke and I said always felt compared to dsis and the children compared, I try best, have listened, thought she was improving etc. it got heated however we sorted it apologised and agreed to move forward. However I still feel extremely upset and hurt, my dd is in the main fine has what I think normal phases for her age. But I know feel like she is a real problem child and we are doing a terrible job bringing her up. I feel like all my moves are going to be judged and I need to know how to move forward positively! Sorry for length on my phone!

Well DM and family can offer advice but that doesn't mean you have to follow it, and tbh honest some of their advice I definately wouldn't have followed myself! They do sound like they care though.

Thank you I know the crux of it is well meaning but it's a hard pill to swallow! Dd is very aware of things asks where she is going if we are going to work today, who is at home etc we try and swerve these questions to avoid anxiety. It's only been like this since moved home. She cries a little when dropped at dmil but nothing like nursery. I am a loss really

I don't understand why you "swerve" your dds questions. If she's anxious and asking about the days plans then surely the best thing to do is to explain exactly what's happening, who's going where - nursery, work, etc - and when you will all be going home again. I would've thought avoiding answering these questions might exacerbate her worries.

This was dm's suggestions as she said we were giving her to much information to process, she is to young and doesn't need to know everything that is going on.

I think you need to separate out the professional/personal relationships asap, and get your daughter settled in another nursery. It sounds to me that you are being scapegoated and undermined as a mother and are placing to much store on their opinions (which sound oppressive and controlling, frankly). Do you feel confident as a mother..?

Of course it was a good idea to take your daughter along to a prospective nursery. That's why the other nursery suggested it! It is a good way to get a quick handle on the likely 'match'.

Also, if a child is anxious then springing something on them can sometimes make them more anxious - they can't successfully anticipate stuff and learn strategies for coping, for example.

You say 'but strong willed and independent"; have you thought that perhaps this is a healthy response?

Sorry but your DM sounds really rigid and somewhat cruel in her childcare ideas. (and I suspect your DD is a smart little cookie and is responding to that) I'd listen to your DD more, trust your instincts, ignore your mother and get DD into a more nurturing nursery asap.

As a nanny and nursery nurse I think it's important that you tell your daughter that she is going to nursery

Where is DD's dad in all this?

I don't like the idea of lying to your daughter about going to nursery. Because that's basically what you're doing. Your DD needs to know sheam can trust you. You're her mum, you're supposed to have her back at all times. Again, I can see why your own DM might feel this is a good approach in the circumstances but I don't think it's a good idea at all, sorry.

Anxious children cope better when they are told what is happening.

Dd dad is of course around but has different ideas he thinks we should tell her certain things and thinks some if it is rubbish by dm but I'd respectful enough not to get involved directly. One instance is that dd overheard us talking about nursery closing and she went and told another child, child got upset. Dm was cross as she said I told dd and they haven't told any of the children what is happening because if disruption. I try and go with my gut and don't feel dd is badly behaved, she is very spirited but says please thank yous etc, generally sleeps well, trying it on with food. Another problem was dd not going to toilet enough she would hold it in for hours, however she has kidney reflux so has to drink plenty. I think going to toilet had become an issue so tried not to make it so but dm makes all children at nursery go before lunch dd said this was getting anxious. It's hard as I am no worried she is going to be anxious at a new nursery too. There always seems to be comparisons with dsis children too ie they don't do much wrong. We don't leave dd often to go out purely as we don't have a lot of spare cash but dsis does a lot goes on holidays etc and I get the impression we are frowned upon for not being same

I think your mother's ideas about how to settle your DD are wrong and I get the feeling that you do to. However, it sounds like you also feel like you owe her a large debt because she fostered you so find it difficult to have the kind of robust, honest interchange (if you know what I mean) that I would have with my mother if she tried to insist upon telling me how to bring up my daughter. You don't want to seem ungrateful and as a result seem to have acquired a bit of a doormat position.

This seems to be the problem- not the fact that your dd is acting out about going to nursery (which my own dd did at this age too).

I agree with the poster who said to find another nursery. You need to put some distance between your professional and personal relationships.

Thank you 2cats2many I think you have grasped the crux of it. But I just can never shake the comparisons feeling but maybe that is more about me than anything esle. Dm said usually an anxious child settles with them after 1-2 weeks and my dd hadn't so dm was angry as I obviously haven't listened to her advice. It's not all criticism she says I am doing a good job etc

My DD(11) was an extremely anxious little girl. She worried about everything. No obvious cause for this. We dealt with it by explaining every night what was happening the next day, and went over it the next day, from when she was age 2 and had some understanding. I did not wait for her to ask, I would start the conversation as a matter of course every night and every morning.

She hated being away from me, so dropping her anywhere became an issue. It got worse when she started pre school, although was still ok with childminder. With my Dd it was the unfamiliar and not knowing what was going to happen that scared her.

If we told her we were going to the zoo she would get anxious as she didn't know what it was going to be like, was it going to be scary, would we stay with her, etc etc. so even what we consider fun made her anxious.

So telling her as much detail of what was happpening each day helped her. I never surprised her with anything as she just couldn't cope with the sudden knowledge something was going to happen and she wasn't prepared.

For anything out of the ordinary, day trip, holiday etc I would start talking about it well in advance so she could feel she was prepared, and we offered her some say in things, like what she wanted to eat or see first when we got there.

We did this for years, she is now 11 and absolutely fine, goes into shop on her own, pays on her own, goes for sleepovers, none of which she did until she was 9! She always had to have one of us with her. Now she is happy in her own company and is confident she can cope.

So for us explaining every little detail worked.

My CM wanted us to 'drop and run' without saying goodbye when dd started the crying at drop off. I refused as thought no way would l do that! CM wasn't that happy about it but respected my decision and all is fine with dropping dd now.

My point being just because people (your DM) work with children doesn't make their way automatically right. Especially if it doesn't feel right for you.

Thank you scooby I am thinking this might be the way to go with our dd she has very good understanding of what is happening and when I sit calmly and explain what is happening it calms her. But with family she will just cling to me it's just past 2-3 months. We have moved house so maybe that has unsettled her. She was previously brilliant at going to bed but is now anxious abut that. My DH suffers OCD and anxiety and my main concern is for her not to become extreme

I also have OCD tendencies, mostly around germs and cleanliness and it did start to affect both my DC's. When DS was little he would cry if he got dirty playing. Dd won't touch anything anyone else has bitten or drunk from. I have worked really hard on this with them.

DS was sixteen yesterday and couldn't care less about dirt now!

But Dd is still concerned and I know that is my fault. But it's not a major issue for her she tends not to notice when she is with friends and having fun!

I was determined we were going to help her with her anxiety and lack of self confidence and we did! I have never pushed her to do something that she didn't need to, like go on a ride at the fair, but we would stand and watch so she could see others survived ok.

Thanks scooby it's not chronic cleaning or dnything but more dh routines and tics ESP when anxious I guess dd might already be pre disposed

Did the clinginess about being left at nursery start at about the same time as her finding out that the nursery will be closing?
Has she got the wrong end of the stick and is scared that she will be there one day and everyone will go away and she'll be left there on her own?

No it started after we were in process of moving and moved house it took months and we were living amongst boxes for months!

X

Bumping for any more advice and still also extremely hurt about the hearing of conversations to

As I see it you have two options, speak to DM about it again, or let go and carry on.

Personally I let go and carry on. I have confidence in my abilities as a mother and my DC's are proof I am right.

My own DM used to be very critical of everything, she was very tactless, hurt my feelings no end of times over the years, but when my Dad passed away 13 years ago she changed. She realised life was too short to continually criticise me, and she tried really hard to stop. If she said anything out of order I would just ignore her and did what I thought was best for my DC's. No one apart from DH knows them like I do so I am the best judge on anything to do with them.

I appreciate your circumstances are different as your DM considers herself an expert on children. But you have to put your DD and your relationship with your DD before your Relationship with your DM. Anxious children need huge amounts of reassurance and unconditional love and understanding, otherwise their anxiety just increases. You know your DD best. Trust your judgement and your instincts. You are her mother, you are who she needs to guide and help her.

Don't compare her or yourself to anyone else you are individuals.don't treat her like other kids are treated she is an individual with her individual needs and you know what they are. YOU are her mother. YOU know best. Believe in yourself and your DD will believe in you and herself too.

My DM saw her sisters fall out with their DD's and go NC for years and she knew she couldn't cope with that if it where her and me. So she made an effort to keep her opinions to herself.

She now has total faith in me and my decisions. I never wavered in front of her. Never showed any weakness, just complete faith in my knowledge of my DD and her needs.

You need to be strong, consistent, confident, and stick to your guns. Be polite, thank DM for her advice, and then do want you think is right. Don't tell her she is right or wrong, just listen and ignore! Don't argue, just say as little as possible and things like, ' I appreciate you have lots of experience with children and am sure that has been a successful option for children you have worked with' be non committal. It works for me, but you do need to be strong. But just remember your DD is the most important person in all this.

Your other option is to confront her, but I can't see what that will achieve apart from another row, and your confidence taking another knock.

Take a stance, stand up and be strong. Rise above it. Be proud of you and your DD.

Thank you scooby I guess this is how the 'overheard' conversation started because she didn't think I had listened to her as dd wasn't improving. I got told if I didn't get a grip and sort her out she would turn out like so and so!! I didn't actually realise there was that much wrong! Obviously the age old problem is relying on her for childcare whilst I work! X

That sounds really tough. You're rightly upset and while they can offer advice they have to grounss to insist that you follow it.
I know it is easier said than done but make the decision not to let what you heard upset you. I like to aallow myself 10 minutes to feel any leftover anger or upset. Really let it out, on your own. Then decide to drop thoes feelings and use the energy to support to ur dd.

Sounds like you are a great mum and you have a high awareness of her feelings and behaviour which is a great foundation to start addressing anxiety.

I have suffered from bouta of ut all my life. Around the age of seven I went through a stage of sitting up in bed and putting a hairbrush on my pillow si that if I fell asleep id be woken by the pain of the bristles as I we convinced that I would die in my sleep.

I agree with advice of sharing palns and helping her feel more in control of what happens to her. Let her help plan simple things so that the world seems less unknown.

Focus on her and don't let your family drain you at a time when you need your energy most.

I'd use a weekly visual timetable for your Dd - if you Google you can easily buy them these days. (Don't get concerned by the fact they're used with children with SN - they're used to reduce anxiety for those children- I'm suggesting them because your DDis anxious not because it think she has SN).

The other thing you can do is get a calendar with a month displayed as a block (so as 4 weeks) and write on there about nursery.

If you Dd gets stuck in a loop - constantly checking about nursery then it's good to do a 'last time I'm saying this'& move on as looping can increase anxiety, but I wouldn't just spring the days on her.