That someone is using a made up law to stop me taking a photo of my child

[Spero]

My daughter is in her first ever drama festival. She is very proud and nervous. I want to take a photo of her. I am told I cannot due to the 'Child protection Act'. I am a family lawyer. I have never heard of this Act. Nor has Google.

So the objection is not that I may disrupt proceedings with annoying camera but that the mere act of taking an photo of my own child is somehow a child protection issue.

I am angry - not so much that I can't take a photo of my precious first born, but for what this reveals about the sloppy muddleheaded approach we seem to have about what 'child protection' really means.

AIBU to be so cross? Am contemplating stern letter of complaint. Making up legislation really isn't on.

SquirreledAway But it's not an illegal ban on photographing children in this instance. You either agree to the Ts and Cs of the competition (which was quite clear on the photography policy) or you don't enter.

I'll try again.

What if the OP entered before she read the terms and conditions on any notice or ticket?

I'll try again The Chandler too:

Because the entry form contained a tickbox to confirm that you have read and agree to abide by the general rules and have read and understood the child safeguarding policy.

The child safeguarding policy states that only the official and press photographers may take photos within the venue and permission to photograph a child has to be gained from the responsible adult, and the general rules state that there is no photography allowed during performances.

SquirreledAway there is extensive case law on why this may not be the case. Its rather complex. If you really are interested in this area of law, it might be a good idea to familiarise yourself with it?

That was to TheChandler, by the way.

Rhonda, no need to put it politely, we all know what you are insinuating. I hardly think Spero has the slightest need to create a sock puppet.

Why not mention your suspicions to MNHQ rather than make such a snidey remark? It only detracts from others' opinion of yourself.

tricky, you are very wide of the mark about the comment "evil twin sister".

It's got nothing to do with being a sock puppet, hence the

Except that, contrary to what the OP first posted, there is a Protection of Children Act (the OP posted details of it herself) so they didn't lie and they didn't make anything up.

But the Act cited to the OP was one allegedly passed in 1999, whereas the actual Protection of Children Act was passed in 1978. Parliament has a way of passing different Acts with the same or similar names, so the year is an integral and very important part of the Act's title. If we're being charitable, we should assume that they didn't in fact intend to refer to the 1978 Act, seeing that it doesn't outlaw the taking of perfectly decent photographs at all.

So sorry, Rhonda, but what exactly was the point you were trying to make?

On reflection, I am actually quite pissed off I am being told not to make a fuss about things because it might embarrass my child.

Great feminist message right there.

Nowt to do with feminism. Kids can get equally embarrassed at dads, too.

I'm actually quite happy to have a blanket ban on cameras. Having been to quite a few performances, etc for my DCs over the years, I am heartily pissed off with parents who, in their attempts to get that fantastic photo, have managed to distract the performance, leading to children who forget what they are doing.

Or they move around, pushing in front of others so they can't see etc. And god forbid you ask them to sit down so you can see. Oh no, how dare you even think about preventing them getting that precious photo of their Amazing Child!

I've come across quite a few of this sort of parent. Who don't give a shit that other parents are there to see other children, so don't care if they spoil things for everyone else as long as they get what they want.

Events were much better and calmer once the blanket bans were in, although I fully appreciate the safeguarding aspects too.

Perfectly OK to ban photos for the reasons Fryone mentions. Not OK to pretend it is because of a non existent law.

I am a foster carer and the taking of any photos of the foster children, particularly at school or while attending any club/event, is a nightmare. Some children, including two I have at the moment, are of huge risk should they be identified in any way. Their families are actively looking for them. Although the school are well aware of this, other parents obviously are not, so I lived in fear that another parent could take a photograph with them in the background. So although not able to take a photograph of my own children when at school was a bit of a pain, I breathe a sigh of relief that there is a blanket ban is in place now. Any other option would mean the foster children could not attend clubs or be in any school productions (which used to be the case). Admittedly it is something I would never have thought about prior to fostering.

Trickydecision - I am fully aware of the DfE's safeguarding guidance. It does NOT include any requirement to ban photos at events. That is why 5 out of 6 schools allow photos without getting into any trouble with Ofsted.

I can't believe that anyone thinks IT is acceptable to take photos at a competitive speech & drama or music festival.

25 years ago before the Internet or anything photography wasn't allowed.

Copyright was mentioned. It's virtually impossible to tell the difference between someone taking a photo & someone videoing. Festivals are given special permission for entrants to perform pieces without having to gain permission/rights from the authors as long as there is no videoing or sound recording.

Children performing a piece they have rehearsed for do not want people taking photos. It's too distracting.

I can almost guarantee there will have been an entry form with terms & conditions. It's actually the child who is supposed to sign the form but a parent of a young child may sign on their behalf.

I bet the OPs daughter is not allowed to take part in the future.

Certainly the school where I am a governor allows photographs and it has recently sailed through an Ofsted inspection, so clearly it didn't count againt it. If they were alerted to the fact that there was a child in school for whom that would specifically cause dangers, they would of course change their policy - but only in relation to events that that child is involved in.

balletgirlmum, why do you think it could never, ever be acceptable for a child's parent to take a picture of their child alone at a drama festival? What harm would it do? It is highly unlikely to distract the child, and I am quite sure OP would not do so if there was any danger of that.

It is very likely to distract the child & might put children off entering if they think cameras at going to go off

And the organiser can't tell whether it's a photo or video. If a video was to get out they could be hit for hefty performance rights fees

My daughter would not want anyone taking photos of her competing (she did a festival last weekend).

As I said it wasn't aloowed at the festivals I attendee 25 years ago either v

Just out of interest, icimoi, what would happen if a new chld started at your school for whom your policy on photographs needed to be changed in order to protect their identity and location?

How would you ensure that parents didn't make the connection between the arrival of a new child at the school and the change in policy?

Just had a chat with OFSTED inspector pal. Off the top of his head, there is now no mandatory obligation to ban photos, but there are various provisions regarding looked after children, children under 8 etc. It is strongly recommended not to allow it, but in any case there must be a written policy on camera use within the school. He is off to watch the rugby now but will delve into his Ofsted stuff and give an update tomorrow. (Should the thread still be around).

However, the school procedures are something of a red herring, as the OP's concern was that laws were being invented on the whim any old event organiser.

There is a Protection of Children Act 1999 - it requires that a list is kept of persons unsuitable to work with children.

If anyone wants to accuse me of creating a sock puppet, make a formal complaint to HQ now or stop making ridiculous snide insinuations.

You make yourself look very foolish.

Thanks mumsnet. Were it not for the snidey 'women know your place' type remarks I might have chuntered a bit about this and forgot it - until the next time. Its been bothering me for years.

And you have given me the impetus to finally blog about it and raise it as a formal concern. I think this is important.

I would be very interested if anyone has further links to school policies, I will hopefully get some more information about what Action for Children are doing with regards to parents having supervised contact with children, I am told their policy has also recently changed.

www.childprotectionresource.org.uk/i-want-to-take-a-photograph-of-my-child-but-i-am-told-i-cannot/

That's 5 minutes of my life I won't get back.