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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to consider these comments as racist

40 replies

Abbey0134 · 12/03/2015 20:19

So a couple of month ago we were out with some very old friends, who asked us how our building work was going. So we replied that it was going okay and happened to mention that two of the builders are Polish. To which she replied "I'm surprised at you hiring Polish workers, you know we don't do things like that" and generally carried on it that vein, even to the extent of saying "What goes around, comes around" when you can't get a job remember who you gave work to......
My DH and I were so shocked and bewildered that we didn't say anything at the time and neither did the other three couples we were with.

We haven't seen them since but they are popping in to see us tomorrow. I'm dreading it tbh, but have agreed with dh that we won't let any more comments like that go, but it has really spoiled the way I think about these people and don't believe that our relationship will ever be the same again. Which is sad when you think that we have known them for over 30 years.

OP posts:
Trooperslane · 12/03/2015 20:24

I worked with a guy like that.

He kept using the P word and I kept telling him not to. He'd say - sure it's only you and me in the room and I'd say- I don't care - that totally offends me.

You need to tell them to stop it and why.

Will the friendship survive anyway?

MirandaGoshawk · 12/03/2015 20:34

Not racist as in anti-Polish in particular - I bet if your builders had been some other race then the comments would have been much the same. So anti non-British or anti-immigrant rather than racist.

But I agree with you that this kind of closed-mind thinking does reflect badly on the people who voice these opinions, and who is this "we" who "don't do things like that"? Do they mean Brits, people who live where you live, or do they think you and they are in some sort of club? It sounds to me that if you and the other couples reacted in bewildered confusion about the comments then maybe your 'friends' might have realised that you were happy with your builders and the fact of their nationality hadn't arisen.

I would leave it, unless they raise the issue again, in which case I would firmly put them right. We can't always see eye to eye with all our friends and controversial issues maybe rarely come up, and I have little idea how most of my friends would feel about such an issue. Only you know whether it's worth keeping up the friendship or whether this is a dealbreaker.

angelface34 · 12/03/2015 21:51

Xenophobic not racist
polish are white

WorraLiberty · 12/03/2015 21:57

My DH and I were so shocked and bewildered that we didn't say anything at the time and neither did the other three couples we were with.

Sorry but if 8 people didn't say anything...like not a single thing, then I can only assume none of you were as bothered as you're making out now, by starting a faceless internet thread.

One of you could at least have said something.

ARoomWithoutAView · 12/03/2015 22:06

I would hire on merit. There are great Polish builders, Romanian carers, Spanish nurses....etc, etc, etc, They are great English builders, Welsh carers, Scottish nurses. There are plenty of lazy-arses of all nationalities. You want the job done, get someone who can do it. Without the immigration we have had, we would be pretty f*** at getting things done.

TheChandler · 12/03/2015 22:22

They didn't actually say anything racist from what you say though. Because you could also infer that they are kind of backing a "buy-British" type policy. If they had said that builders of a certain nationality are inferior or unreliable or something, that would be racist. They could also have thought you were doing a cash-in-hand job and are against tax avoidance.

In fact, there are a lot of meanings you could take from the words you quoted, so unless they actually said something that made it specifically racist, you are being rather intolerant. And a bit odd in looking so hard for racism, especially by old friends.

The law would only step in if they were being discriminated against by a business or if a racially aggravating statement was made, and this is a long way from this.

But do you really go about judging comments made in social settings and reporting them on the internet? And dreading seeing lifelong friends because they made remarks you don't like on one day?

MaidOfStars · 12/03/2015 22:33

Faintly suspicious of the timing of this.

It happened two months ago. You post about it on the day that Nigel Farage announces a 'Back British workers policy' and they happen to be coming round tomorrow.

Did it not bother you two months ago? And why did nobody challenge it? It could have been as racist as anything (it wasn't, although I don't like the sentiment) but until someone, you know, actually challenges it, it will continue.

If you were so horrified/annoyed/bewildered, you would have said something. I can't believe after 30 years, you can't have a healthy debate with them.

CocobearSqueeze · 12/03/2015 22:43

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Latara · 12/03/2015 22:50

If they were my friends I would have said, ''don't be so daft'' or similar; can't believe you didn't say anything?

MaudeLebowski · 12/03/2015 22:51

Not racist, but xenophobic, close minded and ill educated.

silverbangles66 · 12/03/2015 22:58

One man's xenophobia is another's patriotism.

If you'd challenged it when it happened, you might have found out which it was. I suspect your chums will respond to your carefully prepared telling off with 'eh?'

You've waited all this time, nursing your terrible shock?

What an extraordinary person you are.

Debinaround · 12/03/2015 23:44

YABU.

Can't believe you are dreading seeing friends of 30 years because of that.

Glad your not my friend!Hmm

mrsfuzzy · 12/03/2015 23:52

there are many people who want to leave europe, i'm one of them, but at the end of the day, if someone works and pays their dues does it matter where they are from or skin colour. i don't care if a trained chimp is fixing the plumbing as long as the job is done properly. may be your friends are xenaphobic but that is their opinion and their choice, that does not make them bigots or racist. personally i'd rather live in a country of free speech.

mrsfuzzy · 12/03/2015 23:58

as you have known them 30 odd years then that probably puts you in my age bracket, thinking has changed a lot over the last few years, maybe your friends are still thinking in the past and you feel awkward because of it, just say it makes you feel uncomfortable if it gets mentioned again.

loveareadingthanks · 13/03/2015 07:06

It's hard when you find out friends have views like this (and you disagree). I'm sure she thought you'd all nod along and have the same opinion, she's probably also a little bit shocked. Which, fingers crossed, might make her question her views a bit?

Nightingalemumoftwo · 13/03/2015 07:25

the problem with eastern Europeans is that they charge much less than British workers so they effectively get more work and British workers have to lower their prices. I know a plasterer who is great at his job and now competes with much cheaper and inexperienced eastern european builders. His work now often involves fixing the bad job done by cheap builders before him. Maybe that's what your friends were talking about?

FayKorgasm · 13/03/2015 08:00

I get this a lot in work because I am not English. It is a form of racism. Incidently when I work in a particular office with a man from Pakistan he refers to us as Paki and Paddy. I have asked him to stop but he just thinks hes being funny.

popalot · 13/03/2015 08:04

Xenophobia, when you don't like other cultures. They might have a misconception that polish builders undercut english builders. But it's not their place to comment as it's not their house!! I'd be annoyed too - a bit controlling to tell you who you should or shouldn't hire, and 'what goes around comes around' sort of talk is a bit nasty.

iniac · 13/03/2015 08:09

Any builder can undercut another builder. Nationality should be irrelevant. Some questionable attitudes on this thread.

miniavenger · 13/03/2015 08:14

I'd hire on merit too, and personality as well I find really comes into it but my DH is in trade and I know that as Nightingale says above, a lot of easten European workers are so desperate for work then they'll work for barely anything and get royally shafted by the people paying them. I do consider these employers extremely unethical that they'd pay barely anything and shaft everyone to get what they want, so if your friend said that to me then I'd think that she was calling me unethical and implying I paid the cheapest I could and shaft people rather then thinking she was racist. And I'd rush to correct her, which would lead me to see just where her implications and thoughts lay.

But my friends aren't racist so I wouldn't jump to that conclusion, if your friend is known to be racist then I see why you might.

sebsmummy1 · 13/03/2015 08:23

We were seeing building companies in respect to having work done on out kitchen. One guy came in and was just making all these racist comments about the Asian community in our town. It was totally aside from the conversation and I assume he thought we would laugh along with him or something. It was really unpleasant so I called him on it and oh my, that changed how the meeting went. First of all he couldn't stop falling over himself saying he wasn't racist and didn't mean anything by it. Then we had a few minutes of him taking the piss about my words to him and everything I said thereafter he would repeat some of my words back to me whilst shaking his head. Then he left the house and emailed us saying he didn't want the work from us (funnily enough we weren't bothered).

So be prepared for your words to your friends to go down like a sack of shit and potentially lose the friendship. People really don't like a light to be shone on their prejudices. We all just have to laugh along and then slag them off later I presume.

adsy · 13/03/2015 08:28

lots of people object strongly to the influx of European workers which has distorted the labour market against British residents. not sure how that's racist Confused

Dawndonnaagain · 13/03/2015 08:31

lots of people object strongly to the influx of European workers which has distorted the labour market against British residents. not sure how that's racist
How?

adsy · 13/03/2015 09:12

Because europeans on the whole are the same ethnicity as British people.
Racism is disliking someone for the colour of their skin, not objecting to fellow Europeans distorting the market. Quite simple, really.
E.g. If the OP was using a British person of Asian descent and the friend said we don't use those sort. That is racist
using a non British national of the same colour and the friend objecting to that is not racist.
Is that a bit clearer?

Thymeout · 13/03/2015 09:27

This was a political statement, to do with economics, not racial prejudice.

As pp said, there's a perception that, e.g. Eastern European workers, legally entitled to work here, charge lower prices than British tradespeople.

I've no experience as to whether that's true or not, but it often comes up on radio phone-ins.

What would be your argument against this point of view?