To speak to school about this?

[MmeLindor]

DD is in first year (Scotland). We live on the edge of a pretty rough estate, and some of the kids in her class are quite disruptive in class.

She's been complaining recently about having to miss activities, e.g. in science and home ec, because some of the kids are messing around. So the teachers say, 'this class is so badly behaved, I can't trust you to do an experiment safety', so they just do written work.

I asked DD if it was always the same people who were misbehaving, and she started listing kids who behaved well, 'cause it's easier than saying who misbehaves'.

Those who mess around are given a 'task', which she thinks is writing lines. Some kids get a task at least once a day.

AIBU to think that a) they need to think of a new punishment/consequence since the tasks don't seem to be making any difference, and b) it's unfair to the well-behaved kids to miss fun activities because of the others.

Any tips on how to approach this?

Do you mean first year at high school? it must be frustrating for her to miss out on activities due to the actions of others

yes, sorry. First year high school. She's 13 this year.

The school are probably already aware. You can make your feelings known but I doubt it will make much difference.

I mentioned it last year, but it wasn't so bad back then.

They also make the 'good' kids sit with the 'bad' kids, in the hope that they will be influenced by better behaved kids. Sometimes she's stuck between two rowdy boys.

I don't think it's my daughter's job to make the other kids behave.

It's the same everywhere I think.

What are the teachers meant to do though, when you can count the kids who do behave on one hand?

I think you need to do more than just mention now. The disruptive behaviour is directing impacting your DD's education. The school has to have strategies in place to manage them. I would contact her guidance teacher in the first instance requesting an appointment to discuss concerns.

Can you pin point a reason it may have got worse? Change in management? Staff absence?

Blimey I thought you meant year 1 as in 5 year olds.

I think the trouble is that for some kids the punishments are just not harsh enough and realistically what can school do as an effective punishment?

These kids are so used to being told off that it is water off a duck's back.

Strong effective punishments that existed when I was at school simply do not exist . Couple this with crap ineffective parents and you have the situation which you describe.
It is unfair on the good kids, so maybe have a word with school. I doubt if they will change , unless there is some way of grouping all the badly behaved kids together, but then which teacher gets lumbered with all those kids?

My dd1 had a similar experience in PE. She was top set and loved PE. Then the badly behaved kids were put with her group to try and motivate them, it was hell for the good kids.

Sounds like the school are fully aware tbh, but YWNBU to mention it if her work is suffering as a result. Also hate the practice of pairing up 'disruptive' and 'non-disruptive' on purpose to influence them into behaving, it's incredibly unfair and does not work IMO, they just both get no work done.

It may be the case in your situation but being on the edge of a rough area does not always mean the rough kids = disruptive. Ds is at school with some kids from a very 'naice ' area and it seems to be those who are the PITA in his class. Annoying buggers transcend all class boundaries am afraid

Annuziata
well, I kind of think that is what teachers are there for. It's not in every subject. Some teachers are stricter, and behaviour in their classes are better.

SetPhasers
I think it's been like this from the start of the year, and they are just gradually getting worse. There is a possibility that the school is closing, and merging with another school, so perhaps a bit of nerves about that.

Your poor DD, that sounds so unfair.

At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, are there alternatives to this school?

I work in a school. We are fortunate that the majority are well-behaved, lovely children. There are a few disruptive ones, and a couple that are just all-out naughty. What can school do? Nothing, if their parents barrel into school demanding to know why we're picking on their poor little angel, why they're missing out on privileges when it's not their fault, why they're getting into trouble when they just know it wasn't their child who started it.

When 100% of parents work with schools to co-ordinate and improve behaviour, when they support schools and teach their children there is a consequence for terrible behaviour, that's when schools will improve. That's when schools will be able to do something about poor behaviour. And when hell will also freeze over.

Sorry for your daughter, though, it sucks for her. Are there any end-of-term activities planned for the ones like her who are consistently working hard?

Combine
oh, we aren't in a great area either! I suspect that the school on the estate has discipline issues, cause she says that most of the kids who misbehave are from there.

We had the luck, that the P7 teacher in primary school was AMAZING. My DS has her now, and he says we should send Miss M up to high school to sort the kids out!

Then I would begin by speaking to her guidance teacher and just outline your concerns as you have in your OP. It sounds as though you are perfectly reasonable.

A proposed merger is unsettling for staff and pupils. However your concerns seem to pre-date this.

Silver
well, our school is under consideration to close, which will be decided in the coming months. She's actually said recently that even if her school doesn't closed, she wants to move to the new school, because they might have better discipline.

They aren't due to move till next year (school year 2016/17) but seriously considering moving her at the end of this year.

Does the new school have places? You could phone the local authority to find out.

Yes, they do have spaces. They are in temporary buildings while the old school is being renovated.

We were actually torn between sending her to the other school - it has a better reputation. In the end, we thought that the closer school, where all her friends were going, would be better. Not sure we made the right decision now though.

If she is happy to move and there is a better school I would move her now before it gets to the more important years. I sympathise, my high school was similar with behaviour and it's amazing how much it can disrupt learning for everyone else, the teachers end up stressed and can't just teach as they are so focussed on trying to keep the class calm it must be so hard. I wish I had the confidence to move schools as it didn't get any better as the years went on. Hope things settle for her soon.

warmandtoasty
that is helpful - I've been wary of moving her, cause it might get better, but I don't want her to be miserable for years.

I think I'd speak to her guidance teacher first, but if no answers, go to the member of SLT who has the responsibility for her year group. It sounds to me like there is a weak SLT, though - in my experience, poor discipline on that scale comes from the top. Has the school been inspected recently? If not, and there are serious issues, if they are inspected soon, it is likely there will be many many changes.

I'd be inclined to move her.

Well if it's any consolation I made the same decision for my own child. I'm really sorry your DD is having such a rough time of it though. The change into 2nd year happens at the end of May, beginning of June here. That might be a consideration? Meaning she only has a couple of months left to go.

I echo what Warmandtoasty says. My secondary school was like this, it was very frustrating and boring. There were a few teachers who could control the class, many who simply couldn't. I remember asking my mum at the end of the first year if I could move to another school, as I wanted to go to one that felt like a 'proper' school, where there was more opportunity to learn, appropriate boundaries, I even wanted to go to one with a uniform in the hope that it would be strict! I ended up not moving, mainly because when my mum spoke to the head of year at my school about the move, he and my tutor persuaded me to stay, and went on and on about how the school was good really... (he believed it had 'tonnes of potential', and maybe it did, but never really saw it). Wish I had moved!

Good luck to your daughter OP.

What is SLT?

The last report was 2006. I know that they've had a new Headteacher since then, who has apparently brought the school up a bit. I liked her when we looked at the school last year, but have been disappointed with communication.

I raised concerns about a couple of issues last autumn, and was promised that someone would get back to me, and no one has.

Agree that if moving her is an option, and she'd prefer to, then it could be a solution. Do you know any parents there you could unofficially canvass to find out how the teachers there manage the more disruptive elements?

I think it's a crying shame that teachers use children to reinforce positive behaviour. IMHO, it's unfair on all involved and I've never heard of it working, other than in Hollywood schlocky bollocky films.

Good luck, hope all works out for her.

SLT is, I think, the senior management team.

Sorry, Senior Leadership Team - sometimes SMT (Management). Another wanky educational abbreviation.

2006?! Definitely due an inspection then!