AIBU to think we'd have less religious extremism if

[BubblesInMyBath]

Schools actually taught history regarding religion, and not just the basics of each one?

Maybe it's changed since I was at school but all I remember was learning simplistic things like what various festivals were about

I feel people perhaps wouldn't take it so literally if they were taught in more depth about different religions and could see the similarities/differences and how interpretation has changed through history?

The people who take religion so incredibly literally will not be getting their influence from school so YABU. They're force fed it from the moment they're born and anyway - should it really be the job of schools to try to change the depths of belief? I don't think so.

That's a good point, I don't think it should be a schools job to change views, but I think I'm trying to say a little more education may help some. I suppose it perhaps can't be done for risk of offending faiths?

Although some don't seem to be force fed it from birth yet still end up with incredibly extreme views...

I don't think there should be religious studies lessons. I think it should be called diversity. Kids could learn about mixed race families, dissability, same sex marriages, different religions. It might make it more accepting for them if their question can be answered in a school environment?

They're force fed it from the moment they're born and anyway - should it really be the job of schools to try to change the depths of belief? I don't think so

its the job of schools to ignite dc brains to make them question everything and give dc tools to do that.
yes i agree with you op.

it could be incorporated into any history lesson, like the crusades, a king goes off on crusade throw in some hisorty about muslim and christians

YANBU.

I firmly believe schools should be secular.

My DD comes home telling me about Jesus etc as if it is FACT. But in the same breath they are taught about other religions and about tolerance etc. I am not sure what is tolerant about teaching any one religion as fact, because that automatically implies that the others are wrong.

My DD does attend church with her GPs, as do I occasionally. But I don't believe the stories in the Bible are true. I don't believe in any one God. I don't tell others they are wrong for what they believe but I encourage DD to form her own opinion. I find attending church a very calming experience and I take a lot from the sermons and the general spirit of the thing. But that is my personal choice and I honestly wish that it wasn't so common to teach religion as fact, in the home and in school. Maybe even churches could benefit with a little objective thinking.

thegoldencalfre.wordpress.com/2014/12/04/res-knowledge-vacuum/

This blog here has lots of really good articles, arguing for RE that is rich in content and knowledge.

I don't know about countering extremism, but if we want kids to grow up into informed citizens who can read quality journalism about events in the news with ease, understanding and pleasure, and take part intelligently in debates about policy and geopolitical trends all over the world, it is essential to have
a good, sound knowledge about the history and current reality of today's religions.

I would like to see RE that covers all of the world's major religions (and at least alludes to some of the minor ones)their histories, different sects, how they interact with one another, religious reformations that have taken placeand a good sampling of the "cultural literacy" that comes with religion. Having at least a passing acquaintance with major stories and themes of the Bible, Classical myths and so on is invaluable for being able to read fine literature with ease, and without having to check the meaning of references that come up.

"I don't think there should be religious studies lessons. I think it should be called diversity. Kids could learn about mixed race families, dissability, same sex marriages, different religions. It might make it more accepting for them if their question can be answered in a school environment?"

We already have PSHE to do this. With limited curriculum time, we really, really do not need to have students spend yet another chunk of the week sitting in a circle talking about feelings (or, in the case of my PSHE classes, sitting around in embarrassed silence while the teacher tried desperately to get us to talk about our feelings). Ensuring that students respect each others' family arrangements is important, but this can and should be covered in things like assemblies and pastoral care in general. Curriculum time needs to be spent on learning.

Yes I think it very much should be incorporated into history lessons. Seperating religion from its history seems unfair in schools.

Yes, I agree with you -- but how can it possibly be managed with the enormous pressure already on the history curriculum? It's not a core subject, either, so, in order to make sure everyone got these lessons they'd have to be shoehorned into three years of secondary school (two in some cases). And that's along with the Government's new/old 'great man' approach to history, which squeezes out much of the time that history teachers want to spend teaching actual historical skills ...

I think the curriculum is already full enough without adding the history of all the major religions of the world. That's a lot of information.

And the others are right....extremism comes from home and social influences. If schools play a part at all (and in this country, they usually don't) then, at most, they just add a bit of extra credence. Which is why they should be secular.

And, by the way, OP...do you have any idea how horrifying the history of Christianity and Islam actually is? In the case of Islam, the revered "prophet" was a mass murdering war lord. How is learning about him going to combat extremism when he was the most extremist Muslim of all?

It never ceases to amaze me that people automatically assume that religions are largely peaceful and have histories that reflect that. Not true. Not even slightly.

No I really meant further back than that tbh caffe

If we went as far back as Horus/Mithras religious history, I forget now but I remember being hugely suprised to discover just how similar bible stories were to prior mythology - such as Noah's flood and Gilgamesh etc

If children were taught that the bible is a collection of books, and who decided what was included in the copy we have now

That kind of thing...

Well, yes...I agree. But most sensible people figure that out quite quickly, and those that don't are usually being fed bullshit at home.

But you know, they teach in seminaries very challenging "facts" about the Bible and Jesus (largely that it's mostly nonsense, or "metaphor") and it rarely dents faith.

In spite of frequent claims to the contrary, faith is never, ever based on fact or reason. If it was, there would be no faithful people around as it doesn't stand up to either.

It comes from an emotional place unrelated to actual information. So it's hard to educate people away from that.

I think the only real hope we have of combating extremism is to show faith and religion the hearty disrespect it deserves and refuse point blank to accede to any demand for "respect".

IMO.

Do they?

I admit I was raised in a devoutly religious home

But I was always turned to by friends as the one who'd have the know leg on the bible - I clearly didn't. I had a very literal interpretation from years of hellfire preaching. I think people may figure or search out in adulthood but we're seeing that really it's our teens/younger adults who are the most vulnerable to extremist beliefs?

Targeting younger people and ensuring they had this knowledge surely would prevent some people being so vulnerable. It is a very emotive thing faith, but mine was despite being devout, and tbh extreme though thankfully nothing like murdering people very easily shaken and subsequently lost when I realised I couldn't actually believe God wrote the bible...

I still believe in God, my faith wasn't exactly removed - but my box that God thinks/wants this certainly was, along with the belief that my religion was the ONLY way yadda yadda

Knowledge (not know leg!) on the bible.

(I mean by teen friends at the time, I was about 14-15 and friends would ask me what God thought about various things)

So you think religious extremism is caused by people taking religious teaching in school literally ?if only it were that simple. Are you also aware that most religious extremism has actually originated from outside the UK, so whatever you did to the curriculum wouldn't make a difference.

But the key is that your home life was very "devout". You had to go searching for common sense alternatives. (I am glad you found them and escaped the hellfire).

It's easy to assume that, if we offered common sense alternatives at school, extremism might be diluted, but we only have to look at the US to see that that doesn't happen.

Eg....around 50% of American's do not accept the fact of evolution. This is in spite of it being taught in schools. The reason for this is parents telling their children it's "bullshit".

Parents are massively, massively influential. As are the wider family.

Anyone with an extremist mindset learned it at home from parents who are not above telling their kids that they are being taught lies.

School should be adamantly secular. And while I think that the history of all the major religions, going right back to the Greeks, is interesting, it's hard to know where to fit it in to the curriculum.

I should also add that I personally think that the very fact faith schools exist (whatever the flavour) is doing us no favours in this department. Dividing children up based on the beliefs of their parents is a tailor made petrie dish ripe for breeding extremist ideas.

Most children are not extremist because most parents aren't. And they are the ones that really matter.

Now, if we could get the dunder head parents in and educate THEM, that would be nice. But, alas....

Apologies for the appalling inclusion of an apostrophe after "Americans".

No I certainly don't think it's caused by schools, I'm wondering/thinking it could perhaps be prevented by schools.

Because if you're then bombarded with extremist views but have been educated enough - perhaps you have enough of a backstory to religion to think well actually I don't see that going to Syria and joining IS (for example) is serving God (or whatever it is they think)

Schools would not be qualified to answer deep religious questions that someone being brain washed or searching might ask, also a deeply religious person would have very little respect for schools as an authority on their particular religion.

As a christian myself i would not have thought about approaching the RE teacher to ask questions about the meaning of the 'trinity' or what happens after death or such like. Young people are clued up enough to know that the teacher is not a believer and only teaches RE purely from an academic and secular point of view.

Yes mine was devout, but I was the go to person in the class (bearing in mind this was like 20 years ago and perhaps culture has changed) people would ask me all sorts on what they should do about their lives - thinking they might be gay, unplanned pregnancy etc

They weren't raised devoutly. I think I was probably the only one in my class who regularly attended church

I cringe now at all my misguided advice in my teens

I personally suspect the ones with little knowledge at all but whose parents/grandparents are traditionally religious though not extreme are perhaps the most vulnerable because they assume it's true but don't really look into it then see a video or get invited to a lecture/sermon or "witnessed" to by a friend etc and can be sparked into extreme beliefs quite quickly

Well people should be aware of history. All the shock and horror about those artefacts being smashed in Iraq. Henry VIII did much the same thing with monasteries and convents. Many many treasures were destroyed and monks and nuns raped and killed. But that's all forgotten about now we're a naice country.

I don't think I'm explaining myself brilliantly. I wouldn't expect a school to be able to answer deep religious questions - that sort of thing I would expect from a religious leader or parent and it doesn't seem right to label those things as education, it's preaching as opposed to educating

I mean if it was taught in an unbiased way which included a history of religions. I'm sure I never ever heard that anyone else in any other religion throughout history had a Virgin birth when I was at school, or that anyone else performed miracles etc

I think you've explained yourself well. I know what you mean.

But, but, but...something else worth considering....

....most extremists are right. They really are.

The Westboro Baptist Church are right that "God hates fxxs" (hate that word). It says so in the Bible. We should be killing them all.

ISIS are right that every Muslim should use force to make infidels submit to Islam. Mohammed made it very clear.

You basically have to teach children that, well, don't believe everything the Bible says. And that works these days with Christianity. But not Islam. It is the height of heresy to even hint that the Koran or Sunnah are anything less than the perfect words of Allah and Mohammed.

And that is a big, big problem.

Yes I think that's the enormous problem really, that you can't question what religious texts say without being heretical.

My thought was that if children were taught info in schools that proved just how similar some faiths & ancient mythology are, some might be educated enough that when their parents tell them it's crap, have some sympathy for their parents (rather than believing themselves it's crap because their parents say so)