"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

[Bellerina2]

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life

To the poster who claims her independence by saying she saves her DH thousands in childcare... Ha! Reread that statement, you save him?!? Sounds like you are the hired help to me!!

'The last true bastion of Communism, Suzanne'

and?

For heaven's sake. This government's rhetoric has really got to some of you, hasn't it. It's almost impossible to 'choose' a benefits lifestyle these days. I have put up posts explaining sanctions. I have put up posts regarding ridiculous sanctions, relevant because that's how harsh they are. Still you are saying so many people scrounging from the state. There really are very few but you refuse to see that because you've been brainwashed by the worker/shirker rhetoric spun by this government and supported by the Daily Fail. You don't click on links incase they question your viewpoint, you state that (even government figures) are lies, or inaccurate because they don't support what you've been told. People are sanctioned for not looking for enough jobs, people are sanctioned for not attending interviews, people are sanctioned for being late. How many people on benefits as a lifestyle choice are going to put up with that for a considerable period?
But you still rattle on with the same old crap because it's convenient to believe it.

Being gainfully employed also lowers your risks of mental health issues and raises self esteem .

dawn I think it's you that refuses to see beyond your own experience here.

Because you were forced onto benefits through no fault of your own, you think every other claimant is like you.

Yet many of us know people whose situation is radically different from yours.

morethan has stated that she and her DH have chosen benefits over work. They're not ill or disabled. It was a very definite choice.

And they've had a very comfortable life out if it, living as they wish.

TheWord That's incredibly patronising. Of course I don't think all claimants are like me, or in my position. I am aware that there are some claimants that take the piss, but I also research, look at the figures, read the reports etc. So I really am aware that it's a minority.
Yes I do ask people to consider those like me, these threads can be hurtful and discriminatory and I do think it's important to make people aware that some people are in my situation. I also think it's important to make people aware that by punishing the few, they are having a major impact on people with disabilities, mental health problems, learning difficulties etc. I do find the government rhetoric frightening, in the main because the lack of discrimination has meant that disability hate crime has increased significantly as has general prejudice toward people with disabilities.
Finally, from a totally selfish point of view, I do wish if people wish to go on about benefits, they'd use the power of mumsnet to pay carers a living wage instead of the 48 pence an hour we currently get.

Bored with 'wish' now. Apologies!

'Being gainfully employed also lowers your risks of mental health issues and raises self esteem'

because not having a job is associated with poverty and is stigmatized, yes people are happier if they have something to give them a sense of meaning and purpose but it doesn't have to be paid employment.
You are conflating cause and correlation, not to mention begging the question!

So you realise that although it's a minority, these people that actively choose a benefits lifestyle do exist. There are a lot of people in this country, even a minority can add up to a large number of people.

This is a perfect example if how the few can spoil things for the many. I'd have thought (although I realise I'm wrong) that someone who genuinely has no choice but to live entirely on benefits would support measures that stop money being given to those that don't really need or deserve it. They are the ones who are taking away from the money that you could have, and they are the ones that cause the public to be less supportive of benefits.

If they were properly dealt with, we'd save money and attitudes to people who have no choice but to be on benefits would improve.

No one has a problem with those people who work full time and have to claim housing benefit because housing is so expensive. No one has a problem with families who cannot work because of disability and or caring responsibilities. The majority want a benefits safety net, but that doesn't mean the safety net should provide the opportunity to choose not to support yourself and your children.

Suzanne and all the others who think we should continue to support those who don't work even though they can:

Do us all a favour and give 80% of your hard-earned money to these people since you are so gracious to do so. The rest of us can then pay less in tax.

Problem solved.

But Ptolemy they are not taking money that I could have. They are taking money from a pot, but that pot doesn't get dished out to the rest of us if there is more available. It is a fixed amount for each issue, children, disability, etc. The problem is that due to the rhetoric, all of us get tarred with the same brush and then dismissed. It's no good you saying no one has a problem with families who can't work due to disabilities etc. because in fact they do. It's not until I or a few others bring it up on these threads that people think about it. In the wider 'real life' world, people don't discriminate and that is because of the government line.
Of course I accept that there are some who choose this lifestyle, it would be foolish and naive not to, but I am aware that the figures are low, and yes, that is still quite a lot of people, but again, there are better targets for the government in which targetting the few doesn't have an impact on the many. Tax evasion would be a good start.

?Snowbells the points made in my posts and those of many others have clearly passed you by completely.
?

There is not enough useful work to go round
There is enough stuff to go around
We need more efficient and fair ways of providing people with stuff ?

The few spoiling things for the many is something that happens in the world of work too. I've just had a bit of a 'discussion' with someone I manage who is a very good employee but has not followed some essential procedures. He says he doesn't need to as we know he knows what he's doing so why can't we trust him to get on with it like we always have. Well because some people have taken the piss and don't just get on with it, they take shortcuts and our service users suffer, we now insist on a more visible audit trail. He sees this as us not trusting him because he assumes he and his colleagues are dedicated and do a good job.

I know people who have chosen a life on benefits but the bigger problem definitely is tax evasion and avoidance by big companies and the super rich.

At root it is to do with the problem of cheating.
In any social system the greatest benefits occur if everyone cooperates and plays fair, but that provides an incentive to cheat, a free rider can get a big payoff.
So societies evolve various mechanisms to try and prevent cheating, it's not possible to prevent it completely without severely curtailing personal freedom and privacy

It is not possible to have a safety net/ benefits system without a risk of freeloaders, but the harms or disadvantages to society of some freeloaders are much smaller than the harms to society of having no safety net?.
I appreciate that some would disagree with that assertion ?

I don't think morethan has stated that has she Word?

Yes.

On this thread and on others. Regularly.

(I haven't followed TFT but DO remember from elsewhere exactly what morethan's DH does for a living. You can sneer about her choice to SAHM if you must but to characterise them both as having 'chosen benefits over work' is very misleading.)

morethan has stated that she and her DH have chosen benefits over work. They're not ill or disabled. It was a very definite choice.

Not really cricket Word

I don't criticise her BTW. She is just using the system to her advantage. Nothing wrong with that.

No of course people don't choose to be disabled, they don't choose to be carers, they don't choose to be made redundant etc.... These people are claiming benefits appropriately and there lifestyle is not one they have chosen nor is it desirable. But there are some people who choose not to work when they are perfectly able because they simply don't see it is worth there while for the little difference in the money they get between benefits and working. Sorry but this is fact

Cricket?

Yes. It's an idiomatic expression. You have heard of it?

No one has a problem with those people who work full time and have to claim housing benefit because housing is so expensive. No one has a problem with families who cannot work because of disability and or caring responsibilities. The majority want a benefits safety net, but that doesn't mean the safety net should provide the opportunity to choose not to support yourself and your children.

Perfectly put.

yeah, I couldn't wait to have a massive breakdown, no longer be able to work and spend my days on the breadline.

I don't look disabled (although I do also have a myriad of physical problems) but I am.

say what you like - it's no lifestyle choice for me.