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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

"Benefits are a lifestyle choice for so many these days"

999 replies

Bellerina2 · 09/03/2015 11:31

I'm on the bus and two women behind me are having a long conversation about perceived benefit cheats and one of them just said the above phrase. WIBU to hit her over the head with a rolled up copy of the Guardian??

But seriously, it's so depressing that people think this. Well done to the government and likes of the Sun and Daily Mail for convincing people that those on benefits are leading some sort of charmed life Sad

OP posts:
morethanpotatoprints · 10/03/2015 12:05

graciepoole

You sound charming, but remember you are only a couple of pay cheques away from being on benefits yourself.
You might need the gravy train yourself, not just for unemployment reasons.
All sorts of situations attract benefits these days.

Flipchart · 10/03/2015 12:05

Flipchart, I think dawndonna was making the point that nobody works harder for their pittance wage than carers on call 24/7/365 rather than commenting on what you do personally.

Especially if they are caring for more than one person. I couldn't even begin to calculate how much their services save the taxpayer / government.

That is a totally different kettle of fish from what we started of talking about.

Careers allowance is a total disgrace. Respite services are shutting down or reducing what they can offer and people,both the caters and the cared for are suffering with lack of support. It is obscene this is happening in tne UK in this day and age.

demonchilde · 10/03/2015 12:06

Workhouse
Cuts

Will you piss off now Grace?

CadieAgain · 10/03/2015 12:07

I don't disagree Sad

gunnsgirl · 10/03/2015 12:12

I think for the low paid couple with young children who maybe don't have a great deal of family support for childcare, yes a benefit lifestyle could be seen as an economic choice.

However, that's short term. Children grow up quickly, you won't be entitled to benefits and then you'll find yourself older, without skills, and lacking the income you had - coupled with the fact there now seems to be a stigma regarding any type of benefit.

Sad really - some people will always be unemployable due to the large number of applicants / geographics / transport - and before anyone suggests moving, that is also expensive.

Society needs to be tolerant - some people can be high achievers. Some can't. For some benefits is a choice - maybe a poor long term one, but a choice nonetheless

Flipchart · 10/03/2015 12:29

Many people have said on here that people didn't choose a life on benefits. And have said many people could be 3 pay cheques from benefits. I really agree with this

It is something that really bothers me and why I stayed with my employer (a county council) after I hd babies when it would have been cheaper to stay at home. I know it's going off on a tangent but I am acutely aware of how 1 change can have your life fall apart and end up relying on benefits to get you through.

You never know what's around the corner.

graciepoole · 10/03/2015 12:34

Tsk Sunny, keep up. I've said Workshy at least twice!

PtolemysNeedle · 10/03/2015 12:40

but remember you are only a couple of pay cheques away from being on benefits yourself.

This is an argument that has been trotted out to me before, and it is so incredibly lame!

There is a massive difference between being a couple of pay cheques away from needing to claim help, and choosing to live on benefits long term.

The point that anything could happen to lead the majority of people to claim benefits is very true. It happened to me when my husband died very suddenly, and now I get widowed parents allowance, which is apparently calculated based on my husbands NI contributions. So as much as I disagree with some benefits, I claim benefits as well.

Morethan, can't you see the difference between claiming a benefit because your household income has dropped by about 60% overnight with no warning, and choosing to claim benefits so that you can have the luxury if being a SAHP?

Can you see the difference between claiming benefits because you are disabled and working is either impossible or detrimental to your health and claiming benefits because as long as you have children you can be given free money for doing nothing, even if it does man that other people are paying to sustain your perfectly capable self?

I've made this point before and been accused if separating the 'deserving poor' from the 'undeserving poor' as if that's a terrible thing, but I honestly can't see the problem with stating that some people deserve state help and some simply don't.

The benefits system is ridiculously generous in some areas, and woefully lacking in others. I think we should be doing more to identify those who deserve help and giving them more, and giving those who are just lazy or selfish significantly less.

graciepoole · 10/03/2015 12:41

You sound charming, but remember you are only a couple of pay cheques away from being on benefits yourself.

That's a bit of a myth, to be fair. Plenty of people have all kinds of safety nets in place for such eventualities.

The irony is, of course, that those who have paid in most and who save are the least entitled to anything when their shit hits the fan.

Arsenic · 10/03/2015 12:44

Ironic that the minority with savings, insurance policies and trust funds don't get a full complement of means test benefits?

PtolemysNeedle · 10/03/2015 12:46

Gracie, plenty of people do have insurance and the like, but it's not always affordable, especially for those who are only just above the level of being entitled to help with tax credits. Not everyone has a high enough income to protect themselves in that way, but that shouldn't be a problem because we pay tax and national insurance.

The vast majority of people support a safety net being in place for things like death and disability affecting a working family who contributes to society, and the best way to maintain that is by ensuring that help is only available to those who would never choose to be in the position they find themselves in.

Arsenic · 10/03/2015 12:47

Income replacement insurance is extortionate, isn't it?

graciepoole · 10/03/2015 12:48

We are arguing some fairly moot points here. The whole system is about to undergo a huge shake up with Universal benefits and a new £23 K a year cap and a possible CB change.

It'll be interesting to see how attractive a job will look then to some.

PtolemysNeedle · 10/03/2015 12:49

Thank goodness it is about to change, it badly needs to!

graciepoole · 10/03/2015 12:50

I agree 100% Ptolemy.

A safety net, not a lifestyle choice. As it was always intended to be.

Arsenic · 10/03/2015 12:53

Gracie you sound like a slogan-o-matic.

Are you standing for elected office?

graciepoole · 10/03/2015 12:54

Who knows, Aresnic, who knows? Grin

Arsenic · 10/03/2015 12:56

Hopefully you do.

TheFecklessFairy · 10/03/2015 12:59

It IS a lifestyle choice for some - and I can't understand why some MN are saying it's not.

Dawndonnaagain · 10/03/2015 12:59

Apart from the fact that I find it very strange gracie that you've named yourself after someone who enabled an abuser...

you are a bit stuck in the daily fail rut, aren't you. It's been pointed out, and evidence provided that there are very few people who choose to live the lifestyle. It's been clearly demonstrated that sanctions are not rare, but common currency now, so choosing a benefits lifestyle is really quite difficult.

As for your point about having a safety net in place should something go wrong, gracie, trust me, the three or four years that lasts go damned fast, particularly when you have children.

I would also appreciate it if, when you rub your hands with glee and mention 'the gravy train' you would try to demonstrate a little compassion. I currently look after three people with disabilities. I have no respite care, the government removed that. I work, as I have said before, an 18 hour day, seven days a week, every single day of the year. For a great deal less than minimum wage. Works out to 48 pence an hour. I was a lecturer, as was dh. We didn't choose this, we have no choices. There are many people in the same situation gracie and I see you give very little in terms of differentiation. It's much cleverer and easier to be on your high horse with the daily mail rhetoric, isn't it. God forbid you're ever confronted with the reality.

OnlyLovers · 10/03/2015 13:02

Well said, Dawn, and passionately argued as only someone who KNOWS about the realities of the 'benefits lifestyle' Hmm really can.

candidkate · 10/03/2015 13:04

Perhaps not so many indicating the majority of people but definitely too many. Its irresponsible in the name of being liberal and politically correct to say its a tiny tiny tiny minority who abuse the system tbh. We do have a problem where generations upon generations cant get off benefits.

Free childcare and free training for all! child support also needs to be taken more seriously in this county. no woman/man should be left to claim benefits because of a deadbeat partner.

graciepoole · 10/03/2015 13:07

Dawn, nowhere has anyone talked about disabled people as being scroungers.

I'm not sure why you need to bring in disability to every single thread about benefits? This is a thread very clearly about CHOOSING to live on benefits. Disabled people and their carers have no CHOICE, ergo, this thread is not about them.

Back on topic - of course some people choose not to work. It's just the semantics of how many and why. It's an absurdity to suggest no one chooses this.

Dawndonnaagain · 10/03/2015 13:08

candid that just isn't true. We don't have generations upon generations, as the JRF proved last year. It is a tiny minority according to all those who have investigated and even the government figures support that.

graciepoole · 10/03/2015 13:09

Free childcare and free training for all! child support also needs to be taken more seriously in this county. no woman/man should be left to claim benefits because of a deadbeat partner.

Yes to this. Free childcare woudl be so beneficial to so many. It woudl allwo single parents to get out of the benefit trap, particularly.