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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To refuse to go to Abu Dhabi for work / employer?

70 replies

fairyella · 05/03/2015 17:27

My colleagues and I have to complete a short "mobilisation" survey once a year (basically, no one's forced to travel nationally or internationally, as there's usually enough flex, across people who can/want to travel vs. those who can't/won't, in terms of business need).

However, I'm due to submit mine again in a few months and I'm thinking of changing my usual "can travel worldwide with 1 week or more" comment, to something like that but with certain countries on an exclusion list.

My first would be to add UAE to the exclusions, not least because this sort of thing is very concerning, esp alongside some of the customs around females that already make me think twice about how I'd react if I were asked to go out there:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-31692914

^Mr Pate's dispute with his employer began in December last year when he sought to extend his holiday to see a doctor about a long-standing back injury. After being told he could not extend his leave, Mr Pate posted a rant about the Abu Dhabi-based firm on his Facebook page.
... He returned to Abu Dhabi in order to resign but soon after arriving he was called by police who told him to report to a nearby police station. On attending he was shown screenshots of the Facebook message and told his employer had filed charges accusing him of breaking wide-ranging Emirates laws that ban slander.^

Maybe making the above point is a bit moot (I'm pretty sure there's only a slim chance of me ever getting to travel to anywhere hot Grin and if I did I'm sure I wouldn't stray into what I'd think would be seen as "slandering" anyone!) but AIBU to explicitly state there are certain countries like UAE where I wouldn't travel for work?

I suppose I'm worried about coming across as unprofessional, because it's essentially bringing in politics into the workplace (although with pragmatic concerns!).

OP posts:
ShadowSpiral · 06/03/2015 10:17

If you really don't want to go to a particular country, YANBU to say so, as long as you're willing to accept that this may affect your career.

Agree that a lot depends on how long you're there for too. A weeks visit is vastly different to a 2 yr posting for instance.

I have small DC now so wouldn't travel abroad at the minute, but pre DC I had a list of countries I wouldn't go to - primarily ones where the political situation was unstable or where it was considered dangerous enough for people to be routinely provided with bodyguards as part of the package.

alrayyan · 08/03/2015 14:11

I don't think you need a bodyguard to visit the emirates.

stealthsquiggle · 08/03/2015 14:22

Daft to make an issue of it IMHO. DH and I both say "yes, anywhere" on equivalent forms (and they are only about relocation - normal business travel we do anyway). In reality it would not be that easy, of course, but if a specific opportunity did come up then we would consider it on it's merits, including safety factors along with everything else.

favouritewasteoftime · 08/03/2015 14:25

Lol, Abu Dhabi is very gentle and safe. Nothing bad will happen to you unless you are deliberately offensive and refuse to apologise or back down if you do something that isn't tolerated. Also, gay travellers have no reason to avoid the UAE - nobody will make trouble unless you go looking for it. The Emiratis are a very peaceful lot.

BallroomWithNoBalls · 08/03/2015 14:32

I think an employer would have to take any concerns about personal safety seriously - however boycotting a trip for political reasons is silly. Your company will still be doing business with them, so you're not achieving anything with your boycott except damaging your own career. Different if you have concerns for your own personal safety.

mateysmum · 08/03/2015 14:35

The UAE is very safe provided you respect the rules and just act like a civilised human being. Don't get drunk, don't do PDA,s, don't slag off people in authority. Don't committ adultery.

YWBU to refuse to go there on a business trip. YWNBU to say you didn't want to live there. Me, I loved living there. Never any problems but then I live a very dull life.

ShadowSpiral · 08/03/2015 17:54

alrayyan No, I've not heard of foreign workers needing bodyguards in the UAE.

I was thinking of other, currently more volatile, countries when I mentioned bodyguards. Apologies for the confusion.

HermioneWeasley · 08/03/2015 17:59

I don't travel in the ME because of the way women are treated, along with laws on homosexuality and the use of slave labour in some states.

I turned down a job that involved travel to Russia for similar reasons.

Skiptonlass · 08/03/2015 19:36

Yanbu, but be aware of the possible consequences.

Dh and I work in a global industry and we often talk about this. I've worked in several countries over the course of my career, and having done that, there are countries where I just wouldn't live. There are also some I'd bite my employers hand off to go back to!

I was once offered a job in the Middle East, with a six figure salary (weeps gently) and I turned it down. I just couldn't live there. Some people love it and that's great, but it's not for me. Similarly, I wouldn't fancy moving from sweden to the USA, where there's no maternity leave as I'm up the duff now. Maybe in a few years Itd be an option but not right now.

It's up to you, but your employer may reward those who will take assignments over you - again, that's a choice you make.

One thing I would say is to never say anything on FB that would reflect badly on you at work.

DuchessofCuntbridge · 09/03/2015 09:49

I think YABU about the UAE. It's one of the more progressive countries in the middle east - yes, I appreciate that their views on women and gay rights are what we might consider ridiculous, but it's a Muslim area of the world and you would expect their visitors to respect our culture, so you should respect theirs.

Re homosexuality - I have gay friends who live in Dubai. - they get on just fine because they don't flaunt their relationships in public. AD is a little more conservative, but quite frankly unless you just desperately feel the need to start shouting "gay is good" from the rooftops, you're hardly going to find yourself persecuted on the street.

Re women - yes, Middle Eastern attitudes to women are generally a little backward by our standards. However, the UAE is a lot more progressive than you given them credit for. As a professional, I have been there a number of times and I have never found anything other than politeness from men and women there. The only slight issue is that some Emirati men will not shake my hand, but I cant say that bothers me. It's their culture - they still speak to me properly and they're always courteous.

Its not like you're being asked to obtain citizenship and stay there permanently. You cannot judge a place on some half baked reading of media reports of isolated incidents.

BatteryPoweredHen · 09/03/2015 10:34

The social media anti slander law works really well and I wonder if you would refuse to go if a friend or family member had to use it in order to protect themselves from online nutters

Please tell me this is said in sarcasm?

Lilymaid · 09/03/2015 10:47

MY DH has a similar position to you about Abu Dhabi (and a lot of undemocratic countries). He's fortunate that he can largely avoid such visits (had to go once to Abu Dhabi to sort out a mess the company was in and has vowed that once was enough).

caryam · 09/03/2015 10:50

Since they effectively have slavery there, YANBU to refuse to travel there

DisappointedOne · 09/03/2015 10:51

I've family and friends living and working in Abu Dhabi and have visited often. It's a great place to live and work. I wouldn't turn down the opportunity.

OTOH I wouldn't visit Saudi.

Takingthemickey · 09/03/2015 10:53

Op I applaud your stance. I think you should take it further and quit working for this company. Afterall am sure they do make some profits from these countries that do not meet your ethical stance. You don't want to be tainted by working for this company.

caryam · 09/03/2015 10:55

"I have gay friends who live in Dubai. - they get on just fine because they don't flaunt their relationships in public."

An incredibly homophobic phrasing. I am sure you "flaunt your relationship in public". What you mean is that they are closeted, so hide their relationship from everyone, except a few people they can trust.

Dubai is where I have read about neighbours calling the police because 2 men were living alone in a house with no female visitors. So the neighbours assumed they were gay.

OnlyLovers · 09/03/2015 10:56

I was thinking that, caryam. That really doesn't make me feel any more positive about the UAE.

OldFarticus · 09/03/2015 11:05

Laughing my arse off about "stoning" and "flogging"....

I am in Abu Dhabi today on business. OP YANBU in the slightest if those are your principles, and you think it's worthwhile, but if I was employed in your organization I would probably laugh my arse off at you as well Smile You sound a little bit precious!

EachandEveryone · 09/03/2015 11:06

I have gay friends who go to Abu Dhabi every year for their holiday. They stay with another gay couple who live there. Never, ever felt threatened. If my work asked me to go there for a few days a year I would go with a smile on my face. Afew days in the guaranteed sun, staying in a nice hotel doing some work. What's not to like it's hardly a punishment. I grew up in Abu Dhabi and have fond memories of it. Never liked Dubai though.

I think you would look odd if you started listing countries you wouldn't work in for afew days without very good reason.

OldFarticus · 09/03/2015 11:17

Caryam nobody in UAE - gay or straight - flaunts their relationship in public, out of respect for local culture.

Most of the things you have "read about" Hmm are probably BS.

caryam · 09/03/2015 11:22

You don't have to "flaunt" your relationship. I am sure people would know if you are married to a man? Or are you really saying you wouldn't mention to your neighbours and work colleagues if you are married?
Having to hide a relationship is very stressful. It basically means constant lying.

sakura · 09/03/2015 11:26

YANBU
It's cool to see a thread like this.
I'm currently job seeking and often see jobs advertised in Abu Dhabi and it makes me think about the way women's second class status is enshrined into law certain countries and yet westerners happily go there and support those laws implicitly by jumping on the gravy train.

Sometimes it's not about "I was alright when I went..." It's about something else, isn't it. It's about being uncomfortable supporting the economy of a country that does not try to hide its contempt for rape victims or for women who try to be independent.

Then again, if I was desperate enough for the money, I would probably go anywhere I was told to by my employer. It depends how high your status is in your company. If you can refuse, you should!!!

sakura · 09/03/2015 11:29

And if you absolutely had to go, then I'm sure you'd be able to make the most of it and enjoy the different food and culture.

It's just that you have to be very good at compartmentalizing when you do that. You have to get good at turning a blind eye to things you know shouldn't be happening.

OnlyLovers · 09/03/2015 11:31

Sometimes it's not about "I was alright when I went..."

I completely agree. I understand the argument about respecting and understanding different cultures (although I do have problems with that), but I really don't think the 'Oh well I've never seen any trouble' response is meaningful when misogyny and homophobia are enshrined in law.

OldFarticus · 09/03/2015 12:04

Caryam I am talking about holding hands and kissing in public. There are gay bars and clubs in Dubai for goodness sake. I am not suggesting that the Middle East does not contain misogynistic homophobic hellholes btw, just that they are not generally found in the UAE.

If we were talking about KSA then you may have a point...

My view - fwiw - is that we have to respect other cultures if we also expect others to respect our cultures and way of life, to infiltrate in our country and not to try to impose on the majority. That cuts both ways. I feel more respected as a woman that I ever did in the UK, Emiratis are exceptionally polite and considerate. Probably why it's the only place in the region that's been peaceful for 40 years!