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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

In thinking that this is benefit fraud?

143 replies

Cbeebiesmum · 28/02/2015 16:38

Hi I'll try and keep it short, but my friend, I say friend but she doesn't feel like one at the minute. Basically her and her partner are constantly splitting up an then getting back together, they have three children together and I've had a feeling for some time that they've been fiddling the system. Anyway they both own a house together but she moved out a year ago into smaller rented accommodation, he moved back to his fathers house and they got someone in to rent their house.

My fronds was getting a substantial amount in housing benefit and has now been offered a council house which she moves into next week. The amount of HB will cover all of her rent, the tenant will be paying their mortgage and her "ex" is living completely rent free at his fathers!

Now correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think people were entitled to claim housing benefit on a rented property if they already owned a property? But one of our mutual friends has said that you can if you can prove your house is in negative equity therefore you are unable to sell, does anyone know if this is right?

I'm only asking as I think she is taking the absolute pee! She is very much still in a relationship with the father of her children, she still sees him everyday plus they go on family holidays and days out yet they conveniently live apart.They have been on and off for over 10 years and she has always been out for what se can get when it comes to benefits, ie credibly spacing her children apart so she didn't have to come off income support and I believe what they're doing is completely wrong, an I don't know how much longer I can continue to be around her without saying something x

OP posts:
JoffreyBaratheon · 28/02/2015 18:05

If you're right it will be benefit fraud and she will have got a council house fraudulently (possibly, depending on what she said on the forms she filled in). I'd contact Benefit Fraud anonymous snitch line and also the council concerned. There are families in your area no doubt who desperately need that house. It is not a victimless crime.

When my marriage broke up, I was not allowed to claim a penny benefit until I had spent every penny from my house sale. Probably for a couple of years (I had also been left pregnant and unable to work as I couldn't afford to give over my entire wage packet for child care just so I could work - this was some time ago). So I lost everything I ever had, before I could claim any money. It is unfair on honest claimants that people do this stuff and get away with it and unfair on people with a genuine housing need, that someone should take a council property.

It is anonymous - she has no reason to think it was you but set the ball rolling so a family in genuine need get that house.

morethanpotatoprints · 28/02/2015 18:05

Everybody is struggling atm , if there are people defrauding the system they will be caught eventually.

You sound a bit jealous of this non friend, tbh.
You can be proud you don't lie to friends and family, government agencies etc.
Have a badge for your morals and dignity and don't bother about what others are doing.

Original poster
Cbeebiesmum · 28/02/2015 18:05

Where is the ignorance....? I posted Initially to find out whether indeed you can claim HB whilst owning another property, I'm sorry I don't work within the LA like you.

OP posts:
WyrdByrd · 28/02/2015 18:07

From what you've posted it sounds very dodgy although obviously none of us know the ins and outs in full.

What it boils down to is one of two options:

Either you like her and want to retain the friendship, in which case you'll just have to get over her apparent circumstances/give her the benefit of the doubt, or...

...you don't like her and want to retain the friendship enough based on your suspicions that she is playing the system, in which case report what you know and leave it in the hands of the authorities to investigate.

SunnyBaudelaire · 28/02/2015 18:08

no I do not 'claim benefits' Ptolemy well other than tax credits, CB and so on.

Original poster
Cbeebiesmum · 28/02/2015 18:08

Well let me just ask a genuine question then, why should anyone e allowed to claim HB on a rented property when they already own a property of their own.....how is that fair? Why should they have part or all of their rent paid whilst they get someone in to effectively pay their mortgage on a house that will eventually, once paid in full, be a considerable asset?

OP posts:
finnbarrcar · 28/02/2015 18:12

These threads seem to bring out the worst in people. A lot of projection like "you seem jealous OP" and "mind your own business" type sentiments. Weird.

SirChenjin · 28/02/2015 18:12

Really? So despite owning your own house, there are people who manage to get a rarer-than-hens teeth council house, lease out and charge rent on their own house, and claim HB indefinitely from the state??

How does that work then - what's the application process? Sounds perfect for all the thousands of people who can't afford their mortgages and are about to be repossessed by the bank.

Sparrowlegs248 · 28/02/2015 18:12

cheebies I was referring to the multiple ill informed replies. You asked a question and are being given rubbish answers by people who actually don't know the answer.

What you could do is phone the council involved, speak to HB and Housing allocations. Tell them what you know. Your friend may well be doing nothing wrong. All allocations policies are different and it is perfectly feasible that she has been allocated a property legitimately. The HB dept may be fully aware of her circs. But if not, you can tell them if you want.

Bair · 28/02/2015 18:13

SIL does this. She and her partner 'don't live together', and he 'doesn't work'. Pop out a kid regularly so that she can stay on income support rather than get moved to JS when youngest child no longer qualifies her for IS. They move around every 6 months. We have nothing to do with her, but if we drop her in it the council will still house her so they save nothing there, she'll still have her takeaways and nights out, it'll be the kids who suffer.

Original poster
Cbeebiesmum · 28/02/2015 18:16

Oh ok, well I appreciate your input, you seem to know what you're talking about. I genuinely didn't know that people could do this, and to be honest I'm surprised more people haven't done this then, especially genuine people who can't afford their homes and are about to be repossessed.

OP posts:
LIZS · 28/02/2015 18:16

If you know this to be true report them but be prepared to lose this "friend".

Sparrowlegs248 · 28/02/2015 18:18

I can't keep up......

An example - If you can't afford your mortgage, put house on market, can't sell, no equity, etc you can rent it out. Maybe move in with parents for a bit. Maybe make homeless application based on your property being affordable - imminent repo due to mortgage arrears. Rent owned property out, either rent privately or are allocated social housing. Apply for HB as usual, declaring owned property. HB is
means tested, the cut off in savings
is means16,000

Sparrowlegs248 · 28/02/2015 18:20

Oops I am not 100% sure how it works in terms of equity.

cheebies I was surprised myself to be honest.

Original poster
Cbeebiesmum · 28/02/2015 18:21

Bair, it's shocking and it's becoming the norm for a lot of people to kist accept this kind of behaviour. And for me what really hits a nerve is that my friends partner does indeed work. He works as a self employed plumber, but he claims he only earns a few thousand so he can claim working tax credit and income support when in fact he gets around £600-£700 a week! And on top of this she claims lone parent everything, ie tax credits, IS,HB,CTB you name it!

OP posts:
StarOnTheTree · 28/02/2015 18:23

I believe you OP and I understand your frustration because I have a friend who has been committing benefit fraud for years. Yes I know this for a fact because he's very blatant about it and yes I do know the details of his finances. Benefit agencies generally rely on the information that claimants give and unless they're spot checked they can get away with it.

BUT imagine getting caught and at the very least having to pay all that money back and at the worst being convicted of a crime. This friend would lose his job if it all came to light. He earns a very good salary and he thinks living on benefits would be fine (cos you get loads you know Hmm ). I think he's in for a shock.

I also think another friend is committing benefit fraud, it started off as a genuine claim and now her circumstances have changed she's just not telling benefits.

They're both skating on very thin ice and I'd hate to be in their shoes. Yes the extra money might be nice but I couldn't live with the constant worry of getting caught and the constant moral voice in my head that would be telling me how wrong this is.

Thesuperswimmingdolphin · 28/02/2015 18:23

Can you link to the allocations policies that will allocate a council house to a family who already own a house Nottalotta? I have a friend who works for a pressure and policy group who would love to read them.

Bair · 28/02/2015 18:24

I don't think it's 'the norm'. I think the media makes a huge fuss of the odd tosspot who milks the system so we can happily beat the poor with a judgey stick. I know more people living honestly on the bones of their arse (both working and unemployed) that I care to count.

finnbarrcar · 28/02/2015 18:25

I agree with you Bair

SunnyBaudelaire · 28/02/2015 18:25

you know a lot about their finances don't you OP?
What benefits do you claim then?

RocketCat77 · 28/02/2015 18:27

I couldn't stay a close friend to a person like the OP's friend.
Morality is an important trait in a person - she is behaving completely immorally. It's just wrong. Especially when so many of us are working ourselves into the ground to pay our bills and mortgages, and others cheat the system shamelessly.

Thesuperswimmingdolphin · 28/02/2015 18:27

Sunny yes people who commit benefit fraud DO belong in prison because it's a crime. Whether they actually go to prison will depend on their circumstances and the nature of their offence but you're on a hiding to nothing if you think you can argue this isn't a crime.

SirChenjin · 28/02/2015 18:27

Notta - are you absolutely sure about this? Rent out your own home which you can no longer afford, and get a council house and full HB indefinitely? Confused

SunnyBaudelaire · 28/02/2015 18:30

that is really not happening is it sirchenjin?

Sparrowlegs248 · 28/02/2015 18:31

Haha no I can't thesuper !! I work for one LA, I don't know every LA allocations policy! Ours as a rule excludes home owners after a very recent change of policy. However some applicants who are accepted as being homeless (and yes you can be homeless even if you own a house, it has to be affordable, available and reasonable for you to occupy, amongst other things) are able to be included on the housing register.