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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

To withhold last month's rent?

59 replies

CptJack · 28/02/2015 10:22

Name changed as this might out me.

I was living in a 6 month rented house through a letting agency. A couple of months ago I had to move out for personal reasons, but I've continued to pay the rent, have the heating on etc.

When I moved in the oil tank was completely empty and I have ensured that there is enough oil to last until the end of the tenancy at the end of march.

The landlord isn't happy with this, he wants me to pay for a full delivery of oil. (Ie landing him with a full tank of oil when he reclaims his house) The letting agent has emailed me merrily suggesting they will simply deduct the cost from my deposit. (Phrased as if they were doing me a favour )

I have now cleaned the place to a higher standard than was let out in the first place and returned the key.

The final months rent is due tomorrow. Would I be unreasonable to tell the letting agent/landlord to take the rent out of my deposit as I can't trust them to cook up ways to spend my deposit elsewhere?

OP posts:

wowfudge · 28/02/2015 11:34

Where are you mini as it is definitely not the case in England and Wales. That is why it is not lawful for tenants to withhold rent in the last month.

Original poster

CptJack · 28/02/2015 11:34

Thanks for all the replies.

The oil level wasn't documented on the inventory. But had there been oil in the tank before I moved in I would have spotted the oil leak before I signed the contract, rather than after the fuel delivery. But that's a different thread.

OP posts:

wowfudge · 28/02/2015 11:37

I should clarify - it is definitely not the norm in England and Wales to pay the last month's rent upfront at the start of the tenancy. Bloody hell - for most tenants that would mean an astronomical upfront payment!

miniavenger · 28/02/2015 11:37

I'm in England and went through a very reputable estate agent. I'm certainly not advocating she not pay and have said as much but for myself we didn't have to pay the last month because we did so in advance.

I can see why OP would have be tempted in her case;, in the case of the first property I rented with a nasty LL I would have too if I'd had that option but we didn't and I would have refrained for the sake of being the one legally in the right anyhow.

oolaroola · 28/02/2015 11:38

I wouldn't pay the last month's rent and I would email to say why - i.e that you don't trust them to enable your deposit to be refunded swiftly and fairly.

Given the other issues that you've alluded to I think you're right to assume that they will be quite happy shafting you over your deposit.

miniavenger · 28/02/2015 11:39

wowfudge Yes it was a very large payment and the first time almost cleaned us out. Perhaps it was a stipulation by the L, the EA is very popular with properties in high demand and low turnover since eople tend to stay put or a while.

miniavenger · 28/02/2015 11:40

They are trying their hand then OP. No inventory, no oil, no money for them. Refuse to pay and make it clear you aren't impressed with it. Just do everything in writing by email if possible since faster response time.

Nolim · 28/02/2015 11:43

I would not withold rent, challenge the security deposit then.

wowfudge · 28/02/2015 11:43

Paying the last month's rent upfront at the start of a tenancy is a device the EA are using to prevent tenants who do not believe they will get their deposit back from withholding rent. Really it is utterly ridiculous to be paying this money out. And an appalling abuse of power by the EA. Imo this practice should be banned, not encouraged.

Definitely time for more regulation. At this rate it won't be long before requiring the full six months rent upfront will be the only way some tenants can rent.

I have been a LL and wouldn't dream of behaving like this.

mousmous · 28/02/2015 11:43

so, you have

you oil delivery receipt
documentation about the leak and repair

the ll can do one...

wowfudge · 28/02/2015 11:45

Quite - put it in writing. State your case strongly and put them in their place. Do not lower yourself to their level by withholding rent.

specialsubject · 28/02/2015 11:48

saucyjack of course one dodgy landlord is a reason to spit bile at them all. It is therefore reasonable to hate tenants because there are crooks there too.

ignoring the silly playground jealousy; no, you don't with-hold rent, that is a breach of contract. Assuming the deposit is protected as it should be, you raise a dispute if there are any deductions. A check-in report saying that the oil tank was empty on arrival will be helpful.

the letting agent is talking nonsense. But they are not regulated, the deposit IS.

as an intelligent tenant you will of course have confirmed that the deposit was correctly lodged at the start of the tenancy. If you didn't, and now find that it was not, you can sue the landlord for 3 times its value.

the protection is there. use it. All this prattle about 'trying it on' is exactly what the legal deposit protection is there to prevent.

specialsubject · 28/02/2015 11:50

ps normal England and Wales tenancy start: deposit paid and lodged, first month's rent paid in advance. The last rent payment is then paid a month before leaving the property.

to use the simple analogy someone posts; you pay the supermarket for your baked beans before you eat them. Same with renting a property.

Phoenixfrights · 28/02/2015 11:54

Do not withold rent. That is a really bad idea.

If you just send them an email telling them that you do not consent to the money being deducted from your deposit and that you will challrnge any such proposed deduction via arbitration then they will back off is my guess.

Ps, that email they sent is not about trying to make themselves look thoughtful; it is a means of trying to secure your explicit or implicit consent to make deductions from your deposit. Deductions have to be agreed by both parties.

miniavenger · 28/02/2015 11:55

wowfudge ridiculous as it may be it worked fine for us, we needed to rent those properties so like paying a massive great deposit- an amount which is at the LL discretion- we opted to pay rather then go with not pleasant properties, or less reputable agencies with extortionate admin fees.

engeika · 28/02/2015 11:56

You should have had an inventory when you moved in. That should have included your meter readings for the utilities and the level of oil in the tank.

You should return it to the level it was at when you took the tenancy unless specifically agreed in your contract, (unlikely!)

The deposit should be held by a third party - if it is not the landlord will be fined.

PPs have said the deposit belongs to you, No-one can take any momey out of it with out your agreement or proof --> confirmation form the independent arbitrators. The Letting Agents do not have the right to touch it and if they do without your permission they are in serious trouble.

E-mail as pps have suggested.
www.gov.uk/tenancy-deposit-protection/overview

Damnautocorrect · 28/02/2015 11:56

Don't withhold your rent, take it to the deposit tribunal. I can't see how either the estate agent (threatening to take it out your deposit tut tut) or the LL think they have a leg to stand on.

wowfudge · 28/02/2015 12:09

mini perhaps poorly phrased on my part: I do not mean you were ridiculous for paying all that money out upfront, but that it is ridiculous to expect tenants to do so. It is an abuse of power - 'you can't have somewhere to live unless you give us all this money now'. That kind of thing infuriates me.

expatinscotland · 28/02/2015 12:23

He is pisstaking. Tank of oil is hundreds of pounds.

Littlef00t · 28/02/2015 12:43

I guess it depends if you need a reference or if they are likely to pursue it.

If the tank wasn't mentioned on the inventory then there is no requirement for you to top it up, the assumption goes in your favour that it was empty.

If you went down proper channels you wouldn't get any deductions for this, however I can appreciate the worry about how long the dispute would take.

MiddleAgedandConfused · 28/02/2015 14:21

Can you get a copy of the oil bill from when you filled it up after moving in?
This would prove the tank was empty.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/02/2015 14:30

Do NOT withhold rent, because that puts you in the wrong and could cause you serious problems.
Instead, Email the agents immediately, stating that you don't consent to this or any other deductions, because you handed over the property at the same or higher standard as you received it, with the same or higher amount of oil.

I'm an LL and my agents can't withhold anything from the deposit unless the tenants agree - because it belongs to the tenants, not me.

Your deposit (unless your LL broke the law) is in a government-backed tenancy deposit scheme. The LL pays a very small fee for this.
If you and the LL disagree about the amount of deposit that should be returned, then use the independent arbitration service, which is free for both of you, as part of the deposit scheme. You don't need a lawyer or anything, just provide your written evidence - statements, receipts, photos, correspondence etc

During arbitration, which would probably take a few weeks, only the disputed amount is withheld; the remainder has to be returned promptly to you.

I've never had oil CH, but I'm surprised the oil level wasn't recorded at the same time as reading water and electricity meters. Sounds a poor checkin. My agents use an independent checkin / checkout service which detail and photograph absolutely everything inside and out. It costs me a bit, but is the professional way to let and helps avoid disputes.

CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger · 28/02/2015 14:35

I really can't be sure of the legalities, although if it wasn't full when you moved out and not documented anywhere in the contract I don't see how they can force you to ... although they could well take it from the deposit and it would be a long old time getting a reimbursement I would imagine. So, considering that you've moved out already so probably don't have an issue with not getting a reference from him/her for a new property and strongly feel they will indeed deduct the money from the deposit I say don't pay them!

wowfudge · 28/02/2015 14:39

It would not be a long old time getting reimbursement - especially not if the OP has proof of her initial oil purchase from when she moved in!

specialsubject · 28/02/2015 14:41

as a guide, a standard 1300 litre tank will cost about £500 to fill at the moment, give or take.

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