to think that so many public organisations forget people work?

[cricketballs]

Just to set the scene as to our lives; both DH and I work FT. I teach, DH skilled worker (often has to work away) and we have DS2, 15, who has MLD & ASD.

so, in the space of 5 working days we have had 3 day notice of an interview af SEN college that parents have to attend (which I did, but was left outside as they wanted to talk to DS2 on his own!
A shitty toned letter from Chamhs about the fact we have not taken up a parent course that takes place 1 day a week over 6 weeks (middle of the day) and then finally came home to a letter from DWP that as I completed a form sent to us stating that as DS2 is not capable, when he is 16 I will continue to act on his behalf they need to do a home visit in 3 days time - this home visit will take place between 9am - 5pm! For some reason they couldn't work out that he will be at school therefore he nor I will be waiting in all day. Had to leave a message on their voice mail to say I would not be keeping him off school and they need to arrange for school holidays.

We work, DS2 goes to school - why is that so difficult to comprehend? rant over

In some however, it could result in huge differences in services. eg hospitals, consultants don't work weekends so all of that time is unused, how many medical facilities are mainly unused at weekends - MRI machines, CAT scanners etc ( apart from in emergencies) Yet the waiting list for appointments is months in many areas. Operating theatres unused except in emergencies at weekends. many people on waiting lists for ops.

It could be done. but would require staffing funding and changes to working practices.

At our area hospital at Christmas there were two junior Drs on duty on Christmas and Boxing day. Large hospital of almost 50 wards . That is about staff expectations of holidays.

It is annoying for everyone that appointments for many things require taking time off work. But, I think as in the OPs case there is a particularly an assumption that parents with children with any kind of disability or SEN will have one SAHP. Many do because the logistics are hard, but for those of us who don't there is little/no understanding from professionals. One actually told me I should give up work, because they refused to liaise with anyone other than a parent even for really routine appointments. Fortunately our consultant stepped in and told her (also a working parent) not to be ridiculous. Of course some appointments are in working hours, that's what annual leave is for, but there is a general attitude that parents can spend endless amounts of time attending things that have no need to be in working hours or require waiting in all day. It's not about being a special snowflake it's about the services not being fit for purpose in many cases.

I'm not sure what can be done - a change in attitude and some understanding in my experience would go a long way.

Maybe it's the private sector that should change. Why do, for example, back office bank workers have to work 9-5, 10-6 or whatever? They could easily work 12-8pm. There should be more shift patterns for office workers then there may working patterns that suits more people.

It's not about assuming people don't work, it's about meeting targets with best use of resources (often public money) in many places. Even in times of high unemployment its hard to recruit people to work outside the 9-5 pattern as so many have childcare commitments or maybe just don't want to work weekends and evenings. The public don't want to pay more in council taxes or normal taxes to cover longer service hours. More notice, more ability to choose appointments and more specific slots for having to wait in make a big difference though.

I see how hard it is for people but there's no easy solution. I'm a GP and part of the reason I chose the speciality is for the more dependable working hours. DH is also a Dr and works shifts and our family life cannot function with us both working shift patterns. We did it for about a year when I was still in hospital training and it was the biggest nightmare. Many of my doctor friends are also married to other doctors so it is a common problem.
As others said nurseries close at 6 so it is a frantic dash to get children collected on time.
It's often not just public sector workers being awkward and refusing to do shifts- they have lives and commitments too.

As a public sector worker who makes appointments to visit people & places, I take exception to the general tone of some posters that somehow I don't understand or don't try hard enough to accommodate peoples needs. In local government we are controlled by budgets and politics - if the politicians wish to pay us more to accommodate weekend and evening working then fine; but they don't because they don't want to find the budget to do it, and thus won't increase council tax. If your local council tax was proposing to increase by say, 10%, to accommodate say a quicker pothole completion rate, weekend working for staff and better facilities for elderly, I bet most people would complain about the price hike - and those politicians wouldn't get elected. Please don't blame 'these people' the workers, please aim your complaints at the politicians, whom are elected by you.

I do work evenings (committees, public consultation events etc) I try to accommodate my visits around the people & places I am visiting (I've got to site at 7am or 7pm to fit in around the owners) but if I did that everyday I'd be working 12 hr shifts PLUS if what you're suggesting, weekends and evenings to fit around a small minority. Realistically my employer are not going to pay me to do that and when do I get to see my family? In my industry it's customary to arrange a specific time (I don't think I've ever said I'll be there between 9-5.30, that's just not on) and I've also lost count of the number of times I've used my own mobile or my own car at petrol to get somewhere out of hours, or bought my own boots or books, paid for parking, reference materials, training expenses - and not claimed any back.

So YABU OP, you're tarnishing everyone with the same brush and what you are not understanding is the unrealistic expectation you are placing on public services. You want it, the current governments philosophy is that the user pays for it.

It does happen in the private sector - I waited in between 9-7 for a parcel the other day - turned up at 6.35pm. I could have paid for a specific and earlier time, but I chose not to.

Yabu these organisations work monday to Friday too can you imagine them trying to fit in appointment s at the weekend or evening for every other person that works they would be working 24hrs a day yes it is inconvenient but these things are to benefit your family not the organisations the world cant work around your working hours

Lots of public sector workers work shifts that cover 24/7. It is very expensive and the public does not want to pay for it and moans about lazy civil servants and gold plated pensions and people going home at 15:30 on a Friday etc.

Hello to everyone in the army, navy, RAF, nurses, ambulance drivers, firemen, police,coastguard, immigration and customs etc thank you for arranging your lives and childcare so you are there when I need you.

The public don't want to pay more in council taxes or normal taxes to cover longer service hours.

you don't need longer hours. you can, for example, be 12-8 tuesday and wednesday, and 9-5 thursday - saturday.

But then you need to pay for antisocial hours which usually means either a percentage shift allowance or an overtime rate

And you start finding it harder to recruit and retain good staff.

But childcare shuts at 6pm and costs twice as much over the weekend (if available at all). So if you're a lone parent or have a partner who works nights/shifts/away during the week, you can't finish work that late or work weekends.

It's not as easy as just changing shift patterns. If you want appointments available at night and at the weekend, we're going to need 24-7 childcare too.

Shift workers can request sociable hours under flexible working laws. They would lose their shift allowance but means no extra childcare costs

I've done work for local authorities where they've carefuly scheduled evening and weekend provision in response to these needs. Every single one of those events had extremely low turn out and were financially so unviable they won't be repeated. Serious waste of money. The research into the low turn out from a large population of service users who had requested exactly that provision in exactly the hours provided? Its the weekend, they want the time off, they want to be with their children, they're tired, they have stuff to do outside working hours. All absolutely reasonable. During the day there are complaints about taking time out, the problems of cover at work, etc, but the turn out is very high.

What it boils down to is we are so used to 'I want what I want when I want it and I expect it to be there' that realisation is slipping that you are getting a free at the point of use service, costing a hell of a lot of tax payer money (of which there is not an infinite supply) and work to provide, and your convenience can't be the main focus.

Plus when we're all working seven days a week and evenings and we have country wide nursery boarding for 0-4 year olds who go home only a couple of nights a week, people will then complain that they have no time on weekends or evenings either as those are working hours, and be upset that services aren't available at 2am.

And following on from googoodolly and Ohflippity this would mean that jobs would be put outside of the range of some parents and people without children would be forced to work these hours.

YABVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVu

These people are working too and want to work normal hours and/or their employers don't want to pay over time.
many people work pt or not at all. If you have children you know they come with responsibilities.
It is not everybody elses fault you both choose to work ft.
you can rearrange for the holidays and the sahps/ pt workers can take the other appointments you can't make.
if you have to have time off for an appointment that can't be changed you just have to suck it up.

I don't the impression that the OP thinks public sector workers should work evenings / weekends - just that there should be a little more understanding of the needs of working parents in terms of giving adequate notice, or an appointment time that doesn't require a working person to take a whole day off work for one 30 minute meeting. None of this is unreasonable, nor does it necessarily add to costs.

And don't forget that saying on council offices could be open later doesn't just mean one person staying to man a desk. Because of the work it may be 2 people minimum for safety reasons, security staff, IT staff etc.
Yes people like the army operate 24 hours. Some of those roles have shift allowances. It is all about money. It will cost you more or make the service less reliable. There's no other choice.
You can only spread 2 staff doing 37 hours a week so far. If they want holiday, what happens? That's the reality in my team. If something goes wrong when we have no cover then a whole department can grind to a halt.

It's not as easy as just changing shift patterns. If you want appointments available at night and at the weekend, we're going to need 24-7 childcare too.

yes, somehow tube drivers and doctors manage.

"yes, somehow tube drivers and doctors manage."

So everyone at every level of employment should also "manage".

Most people who work shifts have a partner in "regular" hours, lots of family help OR (like doctors) earn enough money that weekend/evening childcare isn't an issue.

Rotating shift patterns often make childcare impossible unless you have a lot of support or someone is a SAHP.

And a lot of people in shift industriea struggle. Look at Jack Monroe? The reason she ended up in such trouble was because her employer insisted that she work a shift pattern that she couldn't manage as a single parent. So she had to resign and ended up in an awful state.

And shift work is tough, even without kids. It puts a strain on relationships, friendships and has been shown to affect mental health by screwing with sleep cycles. Obviously some jobs need to be round the clock but I don't think most should be. Everyone deserves a life.

Obviously some jobs need to be round the clock but I don't think most should be.

12-8 or 11-7 is hardly "around the clock". in fact, some people may even prefer working those hours.

So everyone at every level of employment should also "manage".

government bureaucracies should serve the people, not their employees. Nobody is saying DWP should be open 24/7. Just the odd day, be open later. Our local library does this. They realize that some people won't use the library unless they are open on weekends and/or later some days (we wouldn't as we both work). They have a few later and weekend hours and it is great. The public service therefore used by more people - it is there serving the people instead just paying lip service to being a public service.

I have noticed that more nurseries where I live now are open until 11PM that maybe because I live near an airport to cater for people who work there. I don't see an issue with public services working different hours to the 1950's.