to be shocked/uncomfortable with the cleaning agency's payment arrangements?

[Remind]

I used them pre DC and before I was SAHM, was always very satisfied.

I'm now in need of a cleaner again.

The arrangement is you leave cash for the cleaner's wages and pay the agency fee by standing order. Hourly rate is £10.45, but the cleaner only gets £7.

AIBU to think the agency is taking a huge slice? They use our materials and equipment, so no cost there.

When I used them before (6 years ago!) the cleaner got £7p/hr and I was embarrassed about that then and rounded it up. They've increased the agency fee, but not the cleaners' pay.

I know the agency's entitled to make some money, but that seems disproportionate to me. OTOH, I like the idea of an agency, so any performance issues, sickness etc aren't my problem.

Is it done to make the total hourly rate sound reasonable, but in reality, you need to pay more to retain a decent cleaner? We're in a not very affluent part of the SE.

I'm tempted to call the woman we had through them before and see if she wants to work privately. I know there was something to prevent this, but I think it was only for 2 years.

That's a crap wage for a cleaner these days. We pay ours £10 an hour but are left hanging when she on her holidays or off sick but I can cope for the few times a year that this happens.

Seems a strange arrangement. The cleaners pay/agencies cut is normal but by paying them this way they are showing their clients what they are doing. Odd. Can you not find a private cleaner. They will possibly charge less and can also normally offer references and a happy clients list

Are the agencies paying tax and NI for their cleaners? Because if that comes out of their cut as well, then the proportions don't seem as bad.

Does the agency pay employer's national insurance (may not be relevant if all the cleaners only work very part time hours) and liability insurance, plus the costs of running the agency out of their cut?

Agree that 7 an hour is low, but some will only be getting minimum wage so it could be worse. They also have the advantage of not having to find their own clients and should receive sick and holiday pay as well. They may also be paid travelling expenses.

Sounds a good idea to employ the cleaner directly though if you can pay her a bit more due to not having to pay the agency fee. However the cleaner would then need to get her own insurance as would not be covered by the agency.

I am surprised the cleaners get such a large cut. Why not find a cleaner yourself?

This is a lower cut than some cleaning agencies. So the amount the agency gets is not unusual, letting you know the split, is very unusual.

I wouldn't go through an agency for this reason. Find someone on Gumtree, check their references thoroughly.

We are a private cleaning company (not an agency) so we pay our cleaners direct as employees. Obviously with all the statutory employment costs involved with our service model we cannot compete on price with the agencies but we are a different type of fully-managed service, we train and equip our employees so they work to our methods and standards, we need this level of control to deliver a high-end service.

Agencies on the other hand are much less expensive and can afford to charge much less because the cleaners are self-employed and not equipped or trained by the company, they are more of a match-making service, sending self-employed cleaners to homeowners.

The reason they need the cleaner to be paid separately is to stay within the law, you cannot pay someone yourself and equip and train them and classify them as self-employed. It is a much cheaper model and with running such an agency they will be able to avoid VAT for much longer than we can since the turnover is the part that the client pays to them.

The percentage they take is to pay for the costs of doing business, ie marketing, branding, office staff, etc.

It is fair to say margins are tight in either model, us private companies have to charge much more, at least £15 per hour and after we are hit by VAT that figure rises to £18 per hour, this is because our overheads are huge compared to the agency model.

If a cleaner is employed and working for a company as an employee then £7 an hour is good as they will have all their statutory benefits paid for by the company such as holiday pay, sick pay, maternity, mileage etc.

If however a cleaner is self-employed and hired by an agency this is not such a great deal as the cleaner has none of these benefits and has to pay their own expenses.

I know for sure that for all the cleaning business models margins are very tight, whichever way you look at it, and they all charge what they need to for their individual business to stay viable. There is a market for everyone within the cleaning industry, we just need to find 'our clients' within that market, ie the clients who want exactly what it is that we are selling.

We are fully booked now until we hire and train again and all my industry friends are growing fast. We always say it's horses for courses, there are all different cleaning service models that will suit different clients. we have to find a good match for ourselves either way.

The agencies are doing the best they can but have very little control over the cleaners, but then they ARE a lot less expensive to pay for!

HTH

By the way everyone - it goes without saying that if you look for a private cleaner - make sure they are trading legally!!

Ask for proof that they are set up as self-employed ie registered to pay their own tax and that they are insured.

It is usually ok if they have a website but not always the case, you need to make sure they are in business and insured or you could find yourself liable for a lot of unpleasant issues.

There are many of these individual services out there but if they are trading legally they will not be cheap and you usually have to join a waiting list to get a place with them unless they are a new start-up.

We have seven cleaning staff now and still run a waiting list at times!

I don't understand cleaners wages on MN. People seem outraged if anyone says they pay them anywhere near minimum wage. A lot of people you see on a daily basis are on minimum wage. It is acceptable. It's a low skilled job. You need no qualifications. Agency cleaners are normally on contracts with a specific no. of hours so really no different from retail staff.

Agency has to pay for insurance/advertising etc. although cheeky of them not to have upped cleaners pay by the same percentage as their increase.

I think you need to be careful - if you are paying the cleaner directly, providing the materials and dictating when she works for you the HMRC may well decide she is your employee and that the fee to the agency is just an introduction fee.

I don't understand cleaners wages on MN. People seem outraged if anyone says they pay them anywhere near minimum wage. A lot of people you see on a daily basis are on minimum wage. It is acceptable. It's a low skilled job. You need no qualifications. Agency cleaners are normally on contracts with a specific no. of hours so really no different from retail staff.

I don't agree with the minimum wage. I can't change the way other people pay their employees, but I can pay my cleaner whatever I want so I pay her well (11/hour). It's way too personal an interaction to scrimp on.

GoodbyeToAllOfThat The reason is that you only pay cleaners for time on site, so to bring it to minimum wage for the actual time the job takes including travel etc. requires the pay to be more than minimum wage.

Sure, that's one reason - it's not mine because my cleaner does one whole day and another half between me and my neighbor.

The reason is the same as for any other job IMO. You pay what you need to recruit and retain someone of the quality you need. Which my boss is about to learn to her cost....

You might be able to get a cleaner for minimum wage but the good ones will command more, if not at the outset, then once their good reputation gets about. If you've got one you love, by paying a bit more, like Goodbye does, you reduce the risk of losing her.

Agencies do always take a huge cut. Dm stopped using agencies for tutoring when she found what ridiculous amounts they took.

In some cases they were taking pretty much half what the person paid-and all they had done was give the person who wanted tutoring a list of phone numbers for them to contact themselves. They didn't even vet/CRB etc the tutors, all dm did was tell them she'd like to go on their books for which subject and which age and that was it.

I use an agency and pay her when she works, and pay the agency a quartlerly fee, the fee covers insurances and checks made, also if I wanted to change if unhappy they have a bank to choose from, so just send another along, the bank can also cover sick leave, holidays etc.
They did suggest minimum wage to pay, but it is up to me what i choose to pay her and do give her more as she is great.
I don't have to do tax or NI, every 12 weeks I have to give my lady a paid day off which covers her holiday entitlement.
I have employed directly in the past, but CBA anymore, the headache of advertising, interviewing, wondering if they are trust worthy or actually any good, I am happy to pay the agency fee to do that for me rather than go through that rigmarole.

Needabumchange the reason that cleaners have to set their prices higher than minimum wage is because as a business their price is NOT their wage, their actual wage is the last thing they can take from the income their business brings in, expenses go out first.

As self-employed services cleaners want their actual wages to exceed minimum wage after all their business costs are paid for!

£10 per hour is just about enough to leave you with a reasonable wage UNTIL you start to hire additional staff for your business, at that point you need much more, unless you are going down the agency road where your staff are self-employed and not employed by you!

I asked a friend for a recommendation (she pays £10ph through an agency), I contacted her cleaner directly and she wanted £12ph!! Baffling!!

NotPennysBoat - it sounds like she is setting up on her own aside from the agency work she does and that is her private rate.

The agency work was probably to get her familiar with the industry and now she is taking her own private clients to start upher own business.

That is the only explanation. At least she is setting a price she can afford to work with - many undercharge at first not realising they will have to put prices up once they find how much they are actually left with for their wages once costs are taken into consideration.

I pay £12 per hour to my cleaner. She brings her own materials and vac and is very efficient. No need to write endless lists, she works a solid two hours each week, doing all that's needed routinely and cleaning windows etc in any spare time. She does things I wouldn't have thought of sometimes.
I saw her public liability insurance and proof of address when she started, but didn't expect to see anything about her tax. She's self-employed and if she chooses to defraud HMRC it's her own problem! If you pay a self-employed person for a couple of hours who is clearly just that (ie public liability insurance) it's up to them to worry about honestly declaring their income.