to think we don't respect fire people enough

[Margaretinbloom]

Listening some of the comments on lbc now, people don't seem to respect fire people and the job they do. They want to erode the pensions that they get when the reason they get an alright pension is because it is a risky job that not many want to do. Seems crazy to have them working until 60, I wouldn't want a 60 year old up a ladder trying to rescue me

their starting pay is £21,000

is rises to £29

a soldiers rises to £24 initially and then up - potentially to a lot lot more than £30k

but yes it's not a competition -the fire fighters are simply saying that they shouldn't risk losing their pensions if they can't pass the same fitness test at 60 they passed at 20

Just out of interest Joyce what "shit" did your father put up with?

I have never known any other professional service to strike quite as much. They are also called "water fairies" by certain members of the other forces

Only because the police can't strike. We probably would have done it countless times if we could have!!

The salary is justified but the pedestal isnt.

I don't think they are on a pedestal at all. I think people just generally respect them.

This comparing fitness of a 60 yo to fitness of a 20 yo isn't necessarily accurate. The fact that a 20 yo is fit enough doesn't mean that a fit 20 yo sets the bar for the profession. And actually, if I need (heaven forbid) to call for help I hope they are physically fit enough to help me. I couldn't care less how old they are.

joyce do you not think that it is immoral for the firefighters to contstantly be striking and getting appeased when they know it is at the expense of other deserving groups (I.e. soliders)??

the government has to get the money from somewhere.

I wouldnt go to my boss and demand a higher salary if I knew the business was struggling and it was going to come out of the salary of others. it would be selfish.

I think ffs are in a similar position to the elderly, they have the power either through good unions or being the main demographic to vote and they use this to their advantage at everyone elses detriment by constantly being selfish. im not saying I wouldnt do the same, its normal to look out for your own interests but I dont get behind the mentality that we should all back them as hero's.

carers, military, teachers, social workers, paramedics, prison guards, nurses even big charity ceo are just as important to society in my eyes.

Ghosty, that's not true. A soldiers basic pay (Infantryman, 1st year of service) is nearly 18k see www.army.mod.uk/documents/general/Rates_of_pay_Soldier_2014.pdf

Your average no frills soldier will reach the rank of Sgt. around the 12-14 year point. At that stage his pay will be around 30k

Joyce, I do respect the job they do, but my resentment comes from having to do their job for them when they strike - for none of their extra wages. It's moot now because I'll never do it again, but it still grips my shit some, that's all.

Sometimes striking is the only way to get attention and I'm sure it's not taken lightly.
Firefighting is a dangerous job in more ways than the obvious. My lovely dad was a firefighter for over 25 years and died in his retirement of mesothelioma - an aggressive lung cancer caused by asbestos exposure during Firefighting.

scallion I'm sorry to hear that. I imagine you are very proud of him x

Ghosty, if you're comparing what a soldier can earn if he progresses through the ranks, then a firefighter can also earn much more than £30K.

Im also sorry to hear that Nicknacky. My dad was a builder and also died of the same awful thing due to pulling down walls/ceilings etc. that contained asbestos.

My perception is they do very little for most of their shifts, essentially work part time so earn a good wage for what they do, can have a second well paying job and strike at the drop of a hat...

Yeah, it must be cushy, I'd love a job where I could risk my life on a regular basis

Well said Bikket - how many of you on here have to comfort your sobbing 7 year old two nights a week because he's frightened to death that Daddy won't come home in the morning?

Yes it can be cushy, but when they do work they work bloody hard.

Thanks Nicknacky. Sorry to hear about your Dad Prettyfeet- it's a grim illness.
Think I should point out Happy girl that your perception is wrong - in between call outs there is equipment to be maintained, drills, site visits etc. The hours aren't part time but are compressed into long shifts - nothing to stop most of us getting a second job - ideally they wouldn't have to.

My DH is a fireman, based in central London. A previous poster mentioned about sleeping on a night shift. I don't know about smaller, quieter stations, but I know where he is they can stand down after a certain time but he by no means gets into a lovely single bed and has a good few hours kip. Cat naps maybe.

He has been a fireman for 12 years, he pays a quarter of his monthly salary into his pension, he brings home £1900 per month including London weighting. He doesn't do a second job, although he did whilst our children were still pre schoolers, however I really don't understand the grievances that people have when some of them do work a second job. Many, many people work more than one job.

Yes he works 2 day shifts 9.30am - 8pm, then the third day is clear until 5.30pm when he leaves home for his night shift between 8pm - 9.30am. He gets home at about 11am and then has 6 hours at home before doing that again. Then he comes home and has 3 days clear. The following day is mainly spent resting as he's had pretty much no sleep over the previous 2 days, just in case anyone was wondering how their shift patterns worked. This is for the LFB.

Jigsawlady - my DH is a hero to me and his daughters. You may disagree but I know what his job entails and it's not sitting around. Scraping people off the tracks from underneath a tube train, hauling bodies out of the Thames after they've been there for a while, dealing with bodies that have been so badly burnt in a car crash that it's impossible to tell if they are male/female/old/young. I could go on.

I am very proud that he is a fireman and I get pretty upset hearing others complain that they are lazy, greedy for just wanting the contract they signed up for to be honoured, 'lucky' that they get to strike ( I don't think the majority of them actually want to strike ) and I certainly don't think that he has a cushy job and yes I do think they deserve respect - he has mine so I suppose that's all that matters to him. I also respect soldiers, paramedics, nurses, policemen, carers, teachers - I don't have to just respect one job - I can respect the work of many.

Loxley sadly our 7 year old is currently going through the same

It's awful isn't it Bobkate? DS2 gets so anxious and angry when DH isn't here - he knows the job is dangerous and I can't give him the reassurance that he needs that DH will always be somewhere safe.

DH works on an averagely busy station - yes we joke that he's a professional tea drinker, but the truth is that he's usually quite busy untill10pm.

No second job here, DH works 48 hours over 8 days - he looks after the children on his days off (and when he's on nights) so I can work too.

LOL, Loxley. So he does effectively have a second job. What other job would allow 2 working parents and no childcare?

Exactly - I work 50ish hours a week (maybe 15 or so are from home) and it is a constant juggle around his ever changing shift. We manage to keep childcare to a minimum - the odd hour here and there at after school club and a few hours a week from my Dad. The truth is that any second job wouldn't bring in enough money to allow me to stay at home (as much as I would like to!).

He often points out that he has the boys far more than I do - they groan when they know I'm in charge and I'm doing the cooking!

For those of you that think the pension is reasonable would you want your husband / wife / brother / sister / son / daughter etc working to these standards when the government commissioned review says this:

The pension regulations for England are built on an assumption of a dangerously low aerobic fitness measure for firefighters. The Williams Review, which the Government commissioned, states that the aerobic fitness measure the Government is basing their plans on means “the risk of sudden catastrophic cardiac events increases… with a risk of sudden death particularly while undergoing high levels of physical exertion”. This flawed fitness standard would put firefighters needlessly at risk and fail to protect the public.

Firefighters pay nearly 15% of their wage into their pension fund to allow retirement at an age age that is safe for both themselves and the public you serve.

What would you prefer to turn up at your house with your children trapped inside - an appliance with a crew of physically fit FFs aged 20-50. Or an appliance with a group of 50+ years olds with far lower strength and stamina?