paid surrogacy in poor countries is NOT exploitation

[kellyandthecat]

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/20/commercial-surrogacy-wombs-rent-same-sex-pregnancy

julie blindel writes a very self-satisfied piece in the Guardian saying surrogacy should be banned in poor countries because the women there are being exploited. she used a very extreme example - the very sad case of the little boy with down's abandoned in thailand by the australian couple - but that's about it. of course surrogacy should take place in good conditions and no one should be forced into it, but to ban it completely seems VERY unreasonable to me. my sister struggled with fertility problems for years and if they had to they wouldn't have had the money to use a surrogate here in the UK or the USA. it was a HUGE struggle and I remember how hard it was for her. its heartbreaking to think people could be shut off from this option when assuming the conditions are right the surrogates in these countries can earn a life-changing amount of money for them and provide such a life-changing help to those struggling to concieve.

now of course the surrogates conditions have to be good and their compensation appropriate. but i feel like a blanket ban is exactly the kind of not-thinking-it-through that led to all the sperm donation rules being changed so now no men donate sperm any more and we have a huge shortage and crisis effecting those with fertility problems.

That article is grim. Octavia doesn't seem to even think of the woman who's womb her child is in as human.

The distance between them is 'unbridgeable' yet she's happy to use this woman's body.

These surrogates don't even get 1/4 of the money so it's not like they just do it once and then live the life of luxury for the rest of their lives. I bet they do it again and again whilst paying someone else to look after their children who no doubt live in poverty beyond what we can imagine. How depressing for these women.

This thread has really angered me.

I don't seem to be able to carry babies, the evidence being lots of miscarriages. This has led me to look in to other options one of which, if I'm honest, has been international surrogacy in poor countries. Can you blame me? All I want in the world is children. Can all the people on here judging op's sister honestly say that if they weren't in the situation they wouldn't have done the same?! Any of these people struggled with infertility or are you just smug in your own positions.

I've actually decided that even if I can't have children I wouldn't pursue international surrogacy for all the ethical reasons that have been discussed. But I still thing some of you have been 'harsh as fuck'. "Boo fucking hoo" to infertility. Couldn't you equally say boo hoo to third world poverty. I wouldn't because I have empathy -but you seem to lack some compassion.

It's so easy to judge others when you have no clue isn't it.

PMSL that you think the system is ethical in California!

Denial isn't just a river in Egypt.

If you take the stance that, as we buy people all the time, then it's permissible, you must agree, then, that it's buy and sell people for whatever purpose - rent a womb, grow organs or stem cells in (in the future), sex, what have you - as long as it conforms to whoever's in control's idea of ethical and safe.

'If you have birthed five children I'm pretty sure you would be a good candidate to help your sister.'

She didn't even offer, instead trotted out a 'Oh, I'm probably clapped out excuse and then her sister found someone's body to buy for hire. Sorted.

Twilight, I am infertile. I don't think the issues that has caused me are even a tiny fraction of the suffering that the women in these baby factories endure.

I guess you must have concluded the same as you said you rejected that kind of surrogacy on ethical grounds.

twilight - I am disabled. If I posted saying that I was going to buy a poor woman's organs to cure my disability, then I would expect to get a hard time and no sympathy.

YABU.

It is one thing to have a completely free choice to be a surrogate, it's totally another to have to pressure of knowing it is the only way to get you and your family out of poverty like some kind of deprivation based 'indecent proposal'

I say this as a woman who has been a surrogate three times for two families who were strangers only months before but are some of my closest friends now, surrogacy cost me more money than I claimed but I have no regrets and would do it again in a heartbeat if my health allowed (I have no worries about my mental health by the way rinabean).

Twilight - if you are assuming none of us have ever had fertility issues or treatment, you'd be wrong.

It is safe and ethical and free when you have one for your sister for free.

The moment money changes hands it's unethical and morally repugnant

Damn right it's exploitstive. It's sickening.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/jun/05/india-surrogates-impoverished-die

Indian "baby farms" in particular turn my stomach.

At no point did I say they were ethical. I said people were harsh with respect to infertility. In fact didn't I say they weren't ethical?!

twilight i'm sorry this post has been upsetting for you. it worked out for my sister in the end even after it seemed pretty hopeless so never lose heart and i hope it all comes good

YABVU about the surrogacy. Also you are wrong about the change to gamete donation laws which in my opinion was/is an excellent. Sometimes when you are desperate for a child you don't think right/clearly in the same way as you might if that overpowering desperation wasn't there. This can result in you putting your wish for a child above the rights of the surrogate or even more importantly imho the child born from such donation's right to know their origins/have a non-anonymous donor. That is what the mostly sensible fertility laws in this country are trying to prevent. You are also wrong that this has led to a huge shortage in donor sperm, it did briefly slow things up in that imports of sperm from certain countries is no longer permissible and clinics have had to take more care to recruit the right kind of donor who has thought through the implications of donation but I believe there is plenty of donor sperm available again now that proper recruitment is taking place again (and donors are at least able to claim their expenses now which they weren't when I donated - limit at that time of £250 which didn't get close to covering childcare/time off work/parking).

Seems the majority on this thread HAVE had fertility issues. I did too.

YABU
I had fertility problems and did resign myself to the fact that I may never have children
I did want to try everything (with my own body that is) and we now have 2 children. 1 IVF and 1 adopted
I would never have considered international surrogacy because IMO it is exploitative. I don't have an issue with international adoption but worried that the mother may not be freely giving up the child or the child may not really be an orphan
Once cash is involved women are open to exploitation from men in their own countries as well as wealthy westerners

So, I do know what infertility feels like and the heartbreak that goes with it and I still think yabu

I'm really confused - why are people from countries like the UK paying through the nose to exploit these poor women, when there are surrogacy networks in the UK? I don't understand it :(

so would you also all be against gay couples using surrogacy? i noticed julie and the guardian were too politically correct to be against that in the article - only traditional couples are apparently evil for using surrogates

i'd be interested to hear more about UK surrogayc networks moomin. how do they work?

Your article re sperm donation is from 2006 (which funnily enough was when I used donor sperm). I was so lucky that there was non anonymous uk HFEA approved donor sperm. I believe if you speak to experts (HFEA, DCN etc) this is now no longer the case (not that it's like the us where you can choose from a catalogue but there is usually some available and the first nationwide donor bank is to being set up now). I hate it when people propagate these myths about shortage of donors which just encourages people to go abroad and potentially use a less ethical system which may not have the same the same in built protections for the child to be.

I can't c&p on my phone but Bindel absolutely condemns gay couples. Have you actually read the article?

Yes against all couples using surrogates from countries poorer than us

Surrogates in this country - fine

You really have to consider Kelly that when you've got 50 folk saying you're wrong - you're likely wrong

Surrogacy UK

I don't get why you'd exploit a poor woman abroad when there are people willing to do it in the UK?