to think the nations children are worth more than 1.90 an hour

[IceBeing]

Dear Tories,

The reason that there are 18-25 year olds out of work is not that young people don't want to work, it is that unemployment is at over 2 million.

You stuffed up the economy with your discredited austerity shit, now you want to employ our children at less than half minimum wage to make up for it?

AIBU to actually genuinely hate the PM?

[Baddz]

Georgie boy has been quite silent on the whole HSBC debacle hasn't he?
Any of you seen the footage of him in 2003 recommending tax avoidance schemes?

[Viviennemary]

I'm afraid I agree with this. Young people must be taught that money must be earned and is not something you collect by virtue of doing nothing.

[Baddz]

They are doing a good job, that's for sure.
Divide and conquer indeed.
Workshy
Disabled
Immigrants
Benefit scroungers
Sahps (ids hates us!)
So fucking depressing....it's working!
Why aren't we turning on the tax dodgers? The bankers and hedge fund managers that caused this fucking mess?
Why?

[LurkingHusband]

Baddz

^Georgie boy has been quite silent on the whole HSBC debacle hasn't he?
Any of you seen the footage of him in 2003 recommending tax avoidance schemes?^

I'm pleased you didn't post the link, as the way Google picks up trends and pushes them to the top of results is very much entwined with type of content, how often it is mentioned, and how hot a topic is.

So you gave me a chance to repeat your comment, but add a video. I do hope it doesn't harm Googles results for "George Osborne". Or even "Gideon"

[Baddz]

:)

[Longdistancenerves]

As a 'young person' who has worked her backside off since she was 15, this entire thing makes me rage.
I hate, literally despise the job I am in now- I barely see my child during the week, I work 2 hours away from home, I barely scrape together enough to make a proper living and my alternative, if I decide enough is enough and I want out, is to work for a pittance if I can't get back into a job within 6 months?

I glad I didn't vote Tory and can safely say I won't be again.

Because believe me, maybe not all, but a lot of the 'young people' so fucking patronising are desperately trying to piece together a life and not rely on parents or the state.

[worksallhours]

Oh expat ... the Tories may very well despise the minimum wage, but don't be fooled by Labour.

Labour is the champion of supporting a certain "good PR" policy and then, in reality, undercutting the outcomes of that policy.

So we got the minimum wage, but then mass immigration that suppressed both wage levels and allowed employers to get away with undercutting the NMW by providing shitty "housing" as part of a wage package.

We got permanent rights for contract staff that worked over 365 days, but then we saw the rise of the practice of ending contracts at 360 days, making workers unemployed for two weeks, then hiring them back -- this shit even occurred in government departments and quangos under the Labour government.

[LurkingHusband]

Anyone who looks to Labour as an antidote to Toryism has been hoodwinked (to put it favourably) .

[Viviennemary]

Labour has certainly had schemes in the past where young people were made to sign up for courses or lose their benefit. With the result that there were young people in education who just didn't want to be there and disrupted things for everyone else. They weren't interested in learning. Giving them a chance in a working environment is a good thing. IMHO.

[Baddz]

I was a life long labour voter - til last time.
Then I voted lib dem.
So that worked out well.
No idea who to vote for.
Just none.
Not the Tories or ukip (obv)
Or labour or lib dem (lib dems are finished IMO)
That's leaves the greens.
But they can't possibly get in can they?
Most likely result is an snp/labour coalition.
And that fucking terrifies me.

[TreadSoftlyOnMyDreams]

Hmm - £50 a week is a little misleading. I've just filled out the benefits calculator as a 20 yr old with no employment history [because I genuinely and very luckily have no clue about what benefits people are entitled to] and I'd get
£57.35 JSA per week
£15.65 council tax allowance
£91.52 housing allowance per week as a private tenant
So a total weekly benefit of £164.52. In London which would go far obviously.

Presumably you have to produce evidence of housing costs and a rent agreement before you get a housing allowance so £57 a week is not exactly pots of cash to be living on.

Interestingly, if you had 30 hrs a week at £5.13 per hr [min wage] you'd be £20 a week better off in total but your housing allowance is cut to £32 a week so if your employment is Zero hours then you are presumably a bit frickin' stuffed as a private tenant if the benefits system isn't responsive enough to a drop in your weekly income.

I imagine but have no idea really that the JSA is lower for under 25's as it assumes no kids or spouse to support.

Personally, while it might be great for the old mental health, I think that "community working" is just a Tory vote winner. Everyone likes to think that people on benefits who are genuinely capable of working are doing something for the money. Making that "something" into a worthwhile use of time and resources to measure and administer is something else entirely.

In an ideal world, I'd keep the housing benefit static for 6-12 months, and make the "community/state" work subsidised minimum wage but only in jobs that the employer can demonstrate add skills and training to the individual and require active management and oversight. "Employees" who simply turn up and make little effort can pick litter for no additional financial benefit.
That's my half baked thought process anyway and I accept its probably bollox. Something like the German system where you do 1 yrs military service, or 2 yrs Civil Service or stay in Uni until you are 25+ might be more workable. At least an autobahn/pothole scheme would train a generation in using heavy machinery and some basic civil engineering skills.

[Madamecastafiore]

I think it's fab idea. Sadly it's s rehashing of one mooted by Labour years ago.

[cricketballs]

if its community rather than working for a private company then I am all for it - gets those with limited/no work experience something to put on their CV, ensures that they are not 'sitting on their backsides expecting the state to fund them' and gives them a purpose.

If its for a private company, then I would have an issue for the reasons stated above

[AllThePrettySeahorses]

Community service because they haven't got a jog in this dreadful economy.

Could I add?: Dear Tories - it's not illegal to be unemployed. You are not a criminal if you haven't got a job. And if you are made to undertake work for any reason other than reparation for the committal of a crime (the definition of a crime does not include unemployment), you are paid, at the very least, the minimum wage.

[Dawndonnaagain]

Treadsoftly they've already stated that they're stopping hb for under 25s.


There are many young people who wouldn't be able to do this, some due to disability, some due to other difficulties, unfortunately as ATOS frequently fuck up and seem to think that those with terminal illness are able to work, I can see this being a complete disaster.

[CharlesRyder]

Well, I think I see it differently to most on here.

If my DS ends up without a job I would want him to be given somewhere to go every day where he could do something useful, talk to people, have some structure to his life and not feel as though he had just been shelved.

I would hate to think of him wallowing in front of crap TV or an xbox all day feeling like he was neither use nor ornament.

I would also want this for myself if I couldn't find paid employment.

[andango]

We as consumers need to lead by not using companies employing people for free and sacking the existing workers. We need the existing workers to join in John Lewis style cooperatives so we can employ them direct and cut out the capitalist middleman. This wouldn't be easy to do in all contexts but in many it would eg I don't get why Uber is thought to be so great - all it is is a web page/app. If I were a cabbie, I'd get together with other cabbies, pay a few hundred for a website and app of my own and undercut Uber - because I wasn't having to pay a company worth $40 for using its website. I'd advertise a lot locally, stressing the happy local cabbie angle.

Sorted.

[AugustRose]

I read about this earlier today and it has me worrying. My oldest DC is 18 and hopes to go to university in September - we are on low income so he would get grants, etc all good - I thank whoever put that in place.

However, if he doesn't get in to uni his prospects are pretty poor because:
We live rurally
Most jobs here are seasonal and part-time and minimum wage
Our limited bus route has just been reduced further meaning you can't actually get to many jobs at the times needed (none before 8.30am or after 6.00pm)
We can't afford for him to learn to drive and he wouldn't have the money to run a car anyway

So he is left with leaving home and heading to a bigger town or city - except he won't be able to claim help with a housing while he gets established (assuming there is a job for him to get) because he is under 25.

Kids are already having to stay in education/training until 18 now but what is the point of that training can't get them a job, it's all well and good using apprenticeships but there are still not permanent full time jobs at the end.

I really hope he gets into uni.

[JCDenton]

A lot of people in this thread are missing the crucial point that it's not a problem for people to work when they can, the problem is that if there is a job to be done, they should be paid a proper wage.

[Iggly]

A home would half a brain would see that this is just another way for business to get cheap labour, thus dropping wages for everyone else.

For fucks sake.

[JCDenton]

Exactly.

[andango]

AugustRose - he can get a job teaching English abroad. Some will pay for him to do a basic teaching certificate too. Got to be better than the Tory offer.

[Iggly]

Anyone not "a home".

I got ragey and didn't check my post first!

[IceBeing]

ptolemy said "How long do you think young people should be allowed to remain unemployed for?"

what do you mean "ALLOWED"?

what part of unemployment at over 2 million do you not understand?

How can a young person who cannot get a job because there are fundamentally not enough jobs to go around be considered to be being "allowed" to remain unemployed?

[IceBeing]

Oh and the solution is fucking obvious. Pay more tax and pay everyone a living wage, regardless of whether they are working or not.

We clearly don't need these 2 million people to be doing a job - so why stigmatise and vilify them for not doing it?